The E36 solution.

[Joe Harlan]

JOE,
THINK YOU SHOULD LOOK AT A SPEC SERIES IF YOU WANT THINGS TO BE EQUAL, BUT IT NEEDS TO BE EQUAL ALL THE WAY AROUND. DIFFERENT CARS HAVE DIFFERENT STRENGTHS. WE COULD ARGUE THAT AN RX7 HAS A TIRE ADVANTAGE, WHY .......THE BMW AND RX7 BOTH RUN 225 TIRES......THE RX7 IS LIGHTER AND THEREFORE WOULD BE EASIER ON TIRES..........HEY TIRES ARE VERY IMPORTANT.......BRAKING WILL NOW CHANGE ALSO IF EVEN MORE WEIGHT IS ADDED........LOOKS LIKE YOUR NOT EVEN FROM THE EAST WHERE MOST OF THE HEAT IS COMING FROM OVER CLOSE COMPETITION IN 2005 BETWEEN THE TWO MODELS. PLEASE SOMEONE MAKE A LIST OF TRACK RECORDS.....THIS CRAP ABOUT NOT USING RESULTS IS INSANE. HP TO WEIGHT RATIO IS ONLY ONE ASPECT OF A CARS PERFORMANCE. THERE ARE MANY MORE THAT ARE NOT BEING TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. I HAVE A FEELING WEATHER CONDITIONS MAY FAVOR ONE MODEL TO ANOTHER ALSO(SPEAKING ABOUT HEAT,RAIN, COLD) RESULTS FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY SHOW THE EQUALITY IS THERE.

GREG
[/b]

Greg, try unlocking the caps lock key and get some unleaded coffee. I have been racing and building cars for long enough to know that there is no perfect world including spec classes. I also understand how one car is better in one area blah,blah. When I refer to equalize (the word you keyed up on) I am referring to at least getting the cars into a similar performance window. You would have to have complete blinders on to say the current situation is any where near that. And dude your right I am not from the east but guess what. I get results i talk to people from all over the country I even get to dyno a few cars when I am lucky. Also there is more being considered than just weight to hp here I guess you missed that part of the seminar. In our kind of racing Weight to HP is a very large part of the classification process. Aero and frontal area has little effect until you are very near top end. We don't stay at top end long enough on most tracks to give real big consideration to it.

[Fastfred92]

As has been stated several times before. Results are FAR to subjective. To make a true comparison you would have to know variables that effect level of prep such as, header development, intake devel, tuning, ECU (or carb), shock devel, extent of cage work, weight as raced, ballast needed to make race weight, brake devel, front spoiler. All of those things and a hundred more that go into getting everything out of a car. Oh and then you have to factor in driver skill, luck, the other competition in the field, weather . . . and oh yeah, was the car even legal. None of this is on the results sheets.

[/b]

Matt, If you have any question as to the level of prep in Chets car you are mistaken, this is basically a Sunbelt house car built to the max ( professional level ) with one of the best IT drivers in the country, not to mention his home track. Now if you question the level of Huffmasters car then that is really scary.... I think it must be one of if not the best Mazda effort out there but remember it was said the he was fairly new to the car and never raced RA before, clearly a great driver in a great car. I know results dont count in the "process" but sure seems pretty level playing field to me ??


Andy
As for the 300lbs and loose the plate I thought everyone was of the opinion the plate did nothing to slow the e36's down anyway so again I ask if Chets car had another 300 lbs would he even placed in the top 10??

BTW I think Chets car was for sale anyway............ Maybe he will build a VR6 VW and stink it up again for the rest of the pack

[Joe Harlan]

Hi Joe. Nice to know you are the smart one on all the different forums. Seems to me here in the Northeast the RX7's seem to hold a fair # of track records. And its not that there are not lots of E36's around here. Could it be the guy who can afford a BMW can just afford to prepare the car better than most other marques. I think you will find in any class several poeple who can just outspend most on engines and track time and tires ect... Its the nature of racing. Taking and singalling out any one car that is quite arguably no faster than another with something as drastic as 300lbs or an SIR is just a great way to chase poeple away. But guys, get out your pitchforks and go on your witch hunt. But remember, you may be next.
Chris Howard
[/b]

Well at least you signed your name this time. All I can say Chris is you need to be a little more honest when taking shots. You don't want the SIR for any car in any class and you have spent the last 2 years whining against it on the GT site. You are the same Chris howard that brags about racing a GT2 car with a 300 dollar junk yard motor aren't you? I have a feeling that competitive differences are not something you know a lot about. Please save your shots for somebody else I won't respond further to you.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Andy
As for the 300lbs and loose the plate I thought everyone was of the opinion the plate did nothing to slow the e36's down anyway so again I ask if Chets car had another 300 lbs would he even placed in the top 10??

[/b]

I can't speek to the in's and out's of Chet's can but I would assume it was legal given a teardown situation. I have not seen how he has engineered his FP restrictor so I don't know if it is defeated. I have seen examples of some that have been.

My main point is that results are very dangerous to look at on a single level. By some people 'rules' we out to have taken that E30 325e and put it in ITS due to its dominance. Plllease. Track records are even worse because there is no history to the level of drivers or cars in an area. I know 240Z's, RX-7's, E36's, Mercedes 190's that hold records currently...Does that mean all these cars are equal or does that mean we know nothing about the facts that surround them?

All the CRB wants to do is use the same process for all, whether that is increasing or decreasing weight to fit a profile, or backing into that profile by using an SIR.

AB

[zchris]

Hi Joe. Nice to know you are the smart one on all the different forums. Seems to me here in the Northeast the RX7's seem to hold a fair # of track records. And its not that there are not lots of E36's around here. Could it be the guy who can afford a BMW can just afford to prepare the car better than most other marques. I think you will find in any class several poeple who can just outspend most on engines and track time and tires ect... Its the nature of racing. Taking and singalling out any one car that is quite arguably no faster than another with something as drastic as 300lbs or an SIR is just a great way to chase poeple away. But guys, get out your pitchforks and go on your witch hunt. But remember, you may be next.
Chris Howard

[Matt Rowe]

Matt, If you have any question as to the level of prep in Chets car you are mistaken, this is basically a Sunbelt house car built to the max ( professional level ) with one of the best IT drivers in the country, not to mention his home track. Now if you question the level of Huffmasters car then that is really scary.... I think it must be one of if not the best Mazda effort out there but remember it was said the he was fairly new to the car and never raced RA before, clearly a great driver in a great car. I know results dont count in the "process" but sure seems pretty level playing field to me ??
Andy
As for the 300lbs and loose the plate I thought everyone was of the opinion the plate did nothing to slow the e36's down anyway so again I ask if Chets car had another 300 lbs would he even placed in the top 10??

BTW I think Chets car was for sale anyway............ Maybe he will build a VR6 VW and stink it up again for the rest of the pack
[/b]

Fred, reread the post I was answering. The question refers to races all across the country so the prep level of one car in particular isn't an issue. It's the prep level of EVERY car at EVERY race at EVERY track. Again, it's just not practical to base classifications on that.