Originally posted by MMiskoe@Nov 23 2005, 07:13 PM
What gains can be had w/ a completely built from scratch system (IE Motec) that are not availble by reprogramming/chipping the stock ECU?
What I am curious about is what is available through a completely custom designed system that is not available by re-working the existing system? IE for the guys that do go out and get the custom made system worth 10 years of entry fees, what do they gain that they couldn't get by simply reprogramming what they already had?
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In my experience (which isn't as much as say Joe Harlan, but a good amount) the short answer is not much. Granted I'm speaking in broad terms here but the gains from tuning a chipped ECU as opposed to a MOTEC on a typical IT car are going to be minimal. I would be surprised if the graphs looked that much different. Another thing on here that people key in on too much is peak numbers, area under the curve is way more important I think. Peak numbers can be deceiving, you may only gain 3 peak hp but may gain like 15whp in the middle of the rev range.
I tend to find that what you need to do is richen up the low end of the rev range and lean out the top end. I guess they richen up the top end so it doesn't pull so hard and you're not tempted to pull it to redline all the time, that and the safety factor of having it rich incase there's a problem. Seems to be pretty typical in the cars I've tuned.
To me the advantage of the bells and whistles systems is it makes it that much easier to tune. And what I mean by that is the data you're getting back. Most of my experience is in tuning hondas and a lot is available, some even rival a good standalone. And the datalogging and feedback I get from the ecu makes tuning that much easier because I know whats going on. I can see all the engine parameters, exactly which datapoint the ecu is using at that moment, and the ability to record that and go back later. Not to mention some have an autotune feature. You plug in the A/F you want for the particular cells and just continue to do runs and the software tweaks it til you get there. I usually don't use that as I can usually get there quicker, but the feature is nice.
Now that I'm working on Nissans here the tools utilizing the stock ECU are very sparse. I'm just getting into and have finally got myself a CONSULT box (for datalogging) and will see how that helps me. But the editors just have the bare minimum and it makes tuning difficult and take longer. Now, if I had one of the AEM systems, I could have gotten a lot more out of it and done it much quicker. So, the extra cost of the bells and whistles can sometimes save you time in the end. I'm going to struggle with the free editors out there for my S13, but i'm not too psyched about it.
P.S. Joe Harlan, could you email me at steveluszcz [at] hotmail dot com when you get a chance. Thanks. I have some questions for you regarding Nissans.
steve