looking for advice on building an itb car

[gran racing]

my budget for building an ITB car it was around 10k for the car alone.

Really? WOW! Is that because the donor car you were looking at was really, really expensive? Not picking on you but am curious.

For $10K, you can easily build an ITB car and be a front runner. Yes it takes time and I did not include that. And I'm not talking about requiring a person to have a lot of skill or special tools. It also takes some dedication to read racing books, going to races (oh, no), watching race and your own in-car race video, talking to others about racing, etc.

If you run tracks other then Lime Rock, a limited slip should also be figured into the budget (for the FWD cars you're talking about) when you do the motor.

(In no way am I saying that buying an already built car isn't much cheaper. But as Jon says, there are some advantages of doing it yourself if ya enjoy that type of thing.)

[JamesB]

Originally posted by gran racing@Sep 21 2005, 02:15 PM
Really? WOW! Is that because the donor car you were looking at was really, really expensive? Not picking on you but am curious.

For $10K, you can easily build an ITB car and be a front runner. Yes it takes time and I did not include that. And I'm not talking about requiring a person to have a lot of skill or special tools. It also takes some dedication to read racing books, going to races (oh, no), watching race and your own in-car race video, talking to others about racing, etc.

If you run tracks other then Lime Rock, a limited slip should also be figured into the budget (for the FWD cars you're talking about) when you do the motor.

(In no way am I saying that buying an already built car isn't much cheaper. But as Jon says, there are some advantages of doing it yourself if ya enjoy that type of thing.)

[snapback]60823[/snapback]

no I had the donar car. But like most it needed some TLC to be ready to go. I only quoted out the expensive parts that I could remember. Also your talking about now you have to sort the car. And given the cars unknown status many things would have to be replaced from bearings to bushings. I think I had motor work and my safety gear included in the budget (its all on the computer at home.)

Either way, I have spent under 7k total at this point for the car, the trailer, my safety gear. And I have a .20 over IT prepped 8v motor for a whole lot less then I would pay to do that myself.

[Knestis]

Well, that clarifies things - go with the MkI GTI, MkII Golf, or MkIII Golf.

If I were TRULY only concerned about controlling cost, I'd go with the MkII this year. Ask me again in 3 years, when both the MkII and MkIII are that much older, and I'll tell you different.

In the end though, the box that all of the special parts bolt to is the least of your concerns - cost-wise - over the longer haul.

I don't know that anyone has requested that the MkIII 2.0 Jetta be listed in IT. That has to happen before it's considered. Current thinking tips the scales in favor of the earlier (OBDI) MkIII's, over the OBDII cars - but not by a lot. You have the "4-door or 2-door" question, as well. We got MASSIVELY lucky, finding a non-sunroof, 2-door, stripper, 94 Golf - minus ABS, exploding seatbelt tensioners, and some other stuff that one doesn't want.

It's also going to be tough to get the MkIII all the way to its race weight, I suspect. My goal for the new car is within 50# - that would be 50# lighter than Pablo I.

K

EDIT - we used the original engine for two FULL seasons, ending a few weeks ago at 129,000+ miles. Never missed a beat.

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by gran racing@Sep 21 2005, 02:15 PM
Really? WOW! Is that because the donor car you were looking at was really, really expensive? Not picking on you but am curious.

For $10K, you can easily build an ITB car and be a front runner. Yes it takes time and I did not include that. And I'm not talking about requiring a person to have a lot of skill or special tools. It also takes some dedication to read racing books, going to races (oh, no), watching race and your own in-car race video, talking to others about racing, etc.

If you run tracks other then Lime Rock, a limited slip should also be figured into the budget (for the FWD cars you're talking about) when you do the motor.

(In no way am I saying that buying an already built car isn't much cheaper. But as Jon says, there are some advantages of doing it yourself if ya enjoy that type of thing.)

[snapback]60823[/snapback]

Dave,

While I appreciate your comments, I think you&#39;re setting unrealistic expectations. I can get to $10k pretty quick, w/ just the big-ticket items. And w/o some decent mechanical skills, and some special tools, you will absolutely get there in a hurry. No tubing bender/fish-mouth cutter, and mig welder? Plan on spending $1500 - $2500 to have someone put a cage in the car. Suspension? Don&#39;t think you&#39;re going to get anything that&#39;s competitive for < $2k, and even that may be hard today. Sure, you can probably get a set or two of OEM 14x6 alloy wheels for $100-$200/set, but they&#39;re probably not going to be the lightest things out there. The Kosei&#39;s that Kirk got for Pablo, were very nice, and pretty light. IIRC, those were like $500/set. And then there are the tires. What&#39;s a new set of Hoosiers (225/50/14) cost these days? $600? $700? Granted, tires are a consumable, but you have to get the original ones on the car. And you&#39;re not going to run at the front w/o new ones. By my count, that&#39;s ~$6k - $7k so far. You will pretty much spend what&#39;s left on the motor/trans. Leaves nothing for a race seat, belts, brakes, gauges, etc. etc. etc. Also doesn&#39;t leave any money for any labor on the car.

Sure, you can build a car and get it on the track for less than $10k. However, don&#39;t think that it&#39;s going to run at the front. And placing no value on your time/labor is a false economy. Change that $10k number to $15k, and I think you&#39;re a lot closer. If you have the car built for you, figure on adding another $5k. Several years ago, there was a discussion about the cost of a shop-built car. Cost of the car was $19k. This was an ITB A2 VW Golf, built by one of the top VW race shops in the country. It was a beautiful car, and was quick.

Like Kirk said, I&#39;m sure you can get a car on the track for $3k - $5k, but it&#39;s not going to run at the front. Take the minimalist way out, and you can easily get there.