Super Duper Double Ultra Cheap Isaac System

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by Mike Spencer:

Gregg -

There's already a thread re: the November FasTrack, but no mention of this little goodie;

D. Head and neck restraint systems such as
HANS are recommended. These systems shall
be mounted per the manufacturer's recommendations and shall not violate the single latch requirement (emphasis added) of the occupant restraint system.

You've GOT to view this as a victory, no?

Mike,

Not necessarily.

I think we are making progress, but the wording is still very unclear. There is no reference to "harnesses" as in Section 20.4, and "occupant restraint" could be considered to include the window net. So this means you must remove the net if you use a recommended H&N restraint? I don't believe that's what was intended. Also, "shall" is probably being used as a synonym for "must", which is not in our favor.

It reads like, "We hate the Isaac system." Probably because the HANS folks told them to.

I hope they get this cleared up before someone gets killed. Oops, too late. Two guys died at Thunderhill a few days ago of apparent BSF while practicing for an SCCA event.

Topeka is also behind the curve on the helmet thing. From the same FasTrack:

"New Business:
Action Item: Doug Robinson is instructed
to contact major helmet manufacturers to
determine if installing a HANS device would
void a helmet's certification or warranty, and determine under what circumstances it can
be done. A Competitor Bulletin recommending
head and neck support systems will be
issued upon receipt of this information."

I'm going to save Doug a little time:

1) Helmets don't have warranties.

2) Snell certification expressly states that any modification of the helmet structure voids the certification. The only way to retain the Snell certification when attaching a H&N restraint component is to use the Isaac adhesive. Ergo, the only legal H&N restraint in SCCA Club Racing is the Isaac system; the HANS device is out.

So here is what SCCA Club Racing is saying, as best as we can tell (Pro Racing mandates a H&N restraint from any manufacture):

You really should use a H&N restaint. However, since we require Snell certified helmets you can't attach the H&N restraint to your helmet unless it is an Isaac system with the adhesive. And the window net is iffy too.

More work is needed.

------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

edit: double bold

[This message has been edited by gsbaker (edited October 11, 2004).]

[Knestis]

Back in the '80s when I was doing school presentations about seatbelt use with our racing car, one of the Seattle area law enforcement agencies (maybe King Co?) had a sled like is mentioned here.

It would be very cool to put the seat on a turntable with locks so lateral and offset impacts could be simulated.

It would be EXTRA cool if it could incorporate a typical late-model sedan interior and roof so people could get a picture of how close they are going to get to the various hard parts involved...

K

[Wayne]

Originally posted by gsbaker:
Oh yeah: frontal, offset frontal and lateral impacts with full harness and racing seat, and let racers try it with no H&N restraint, an Isaac system and a HANS device.

How did you get that idea by your legal council? Damn, my neck has been hurting for weeks after riding Gregg's human crash sled at the last race weekend... better go see the Doctor$$$$$

At any rate, I think the portable crash sled demo would be more effective then the circus ride concept. Think about the sales pitch after the guy rides the sled at a severely reduced rate of force. Racer: "wow, that was pretty intense" Gregg: "Yeah, now just imagine it being 10 times worse". Well guess what? They can't imagine it being 10 times worse because they have never SEEN what a real crash looks like (from the outside looking in). The only way I see the circus ride concept being really effective is if you turn up the force such that it really does hurt their necks. Obviously that's not a good idea.

Racers need to see, hear, and feel the violence of the impact, when observing the cockpit area from outside the car(cutaway car). They need to be able to see themselves being in that seat. They need to "see" what happens to "their body" when they are involved in a wreck.

I would envision a three quarter cutaway car open for observation from the drivers side. The rest of the interior is just like a typical sedan race car (as K mentioned). The dummy is fully suited up and is proportionate to a real driver. You could either have the entire 3/4 car travel forward and slam to a stop. Or you could have the driver in the race seat travel forward from behind the car, and slam to a stop inside the car where it would normally be mounted. Probably would be preferable to have the whole 3/4 car travel along the track though.

Assuming you could allow people to get fairly close to the demo rig, this would satisfy the visual requirement for demonstrating the violence. They could see what happens to them in the cockpit during a violent crash.

There needs to be sound as well. Sound that indicates great momentum, and nauseating violence when halted. The natural sound of the mechanical sled mechanism may work for this depending on how loud it is. You want people to hear that thing ramping up speed, tearing along the track, and slamming to a stop. This would satisfy the audio part of the assault on the senses equation.

Finally, the sense of feel. They need to have some feel of the violence when the impact is made. You could make the platform like they make the ones for pro wrestling. With springs and such that allow you to feel any vibration or impact on the platform itself. Imagine people standing on this platform watching the sled/car rocket down the track (feeling the vibration of car/mechanism) and slamming to a halt (feeling the sickening vibration and shudder of the impact) right in front of them.

Bonus visual: Use very large analog gauges to indicate the various forces and measurements of the sled. Digital gauges have no points of reference, and do nothing to communicate the level of violence that is taking place on the sled. People need to see that needle moving.

Yeah, that's the ticket!

Wayne

[gsbaker]

Wayne,

That’s hilarious! No, I mean that in a good way, honest! We should put you in charge of field sales, because you have captured all the elements that make a crash test so impressive. It’s all there; the sights, the sounds and the vibrations. Have you observed a crash test?

You are, of course, correct. The rig you describe will do the job, and do it nicely. I have given up trying to describe crash tests. Videos help, and are good for certain types of analyses, but do not come close to describing what that anthropometrically mean adult male dummy goes through as he gets the snot slammed out of him. Although I had studied the subject in depth, viewed several crash videos and couldn’t wait to see our first Fz values, my reaction to our first crash test resembles the scene in “Animal House” where John Belushi realizes he just shot the horse in the Dean’s office: “Holy $hit! Holy $hit!..."

But you have to be very fast: the peak loads occur in about 30 milliseconds. For a sense of perspective, the blink of an eye takes about 25ms. The only other problems are that 1) we would be assaulted by racers who would not get into a minivan without an Isaac system and, 2) spend well into seven figures for a multi-ton rig that would barely fit on a rail flat car.

Cool idea though. I love the image.

------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

[Knestis]

Originally posted by gsbaker:
... It’s all there; the sights, the sounds and the vibrations. Have you observed a crash test? ...

Now you just need the smells. Coolant, hot rubber, and poopy drawers.

K

[bobpink]

Originally posted by gsbaker:

2) Snell certification expressly states that any modification of the helmet structure voids the certification. The only way to retain the Snell certification when attaching a H&N restraint component is to use the Isaac adhesive. Ergo, the only legal H&N restraint in SCCA Club Racing is the Isaac system; the HANS device is out.

The above statement is not entirely true as far as only one device being "legal" for SCCA Club Racing.

A racer could purchase the G-FORCE Racing Gear SRS-1 which already has the mounting points for the helmet restraint device molded into the helmet. No holes, no glue, no fuss. Yes, you do have to buy a G-FORCE helmet, but the whole set-up can be purchased for just under $600 depending on the helmet. And like the other devices, there are many testimonials to its effectiveness - most recently the Spec Miata driver who crashed drivers left at Turn 5 at Road Atlanta in July.

I know where you are going as far as the mounting the Isaac device to the helmet using glue to not void the Snell certification...

------------------
Bob Pinkowski
Atlanta Region SCCA
ITS Honda Prelude

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by bobpink:
The above statement is not entirely true as far as only one device being "legal" for SCCA Club Racing.

A racer could purchase the G-FORCE Racing
Gear SRS-1...

Bob,

Good point. Of course, we are now above the $500 figure, which these guys seem to indicate is the top of the "inexpensive" range.

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">I know where you are going as far as the mounting the Isaac device to the helmet using glue to not void the Snell certification...</font>

Really? Where?

The bottom line is that new concepts never fit old rules. I'm certain the first light bulb never complied with any rules written by the kerosene lamp committee. In the end the rules get changed.

Hopefully the SCCA is smart enough to realize that any H&N restraint is a plus for safety. If they deny a driver the use of any make or model and the driver gets hurt, the family will sue them into the next dimension.

BTW Bob, does your product comply with Section 20.4 of the GCR?

------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

[HBennett]

I don't have my '04 GCR handy, but if you are referring to the point about an H&N restraint equipped driver being released from a single point with the harness, yes it does. When the harness is released, the SRS-1 is released with the driver.

Howard Bennett
Racer Wholesale

[HBennett]

Another interesting bit that I just discovered from the from the Snell helmet certification papers:

Page 10

"CONSTRUCTION

A. General

The assembled helmet shall have smooth external and internal surfaces. Any feature projecting more than 7 mm beyond the outer surface must readily break away; all other
projections on the outer surface shall be smoothly faired and offer minimal frictional
resistance to tangential impact forces. Rivets and similar projections into the helmet interior must offer no laceration or puncture hazard. Restraint clips may be used at the rear or on the side of the helmet. The helmet shall provide as nearly uniform impact protection over the entire protected area as is possible."

I'm not trying to start a contest here, I really would like to know. Thanks.

Howard Bennett
Racer Wholesale

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by HBennett:
...When the harness is released, the SRS-1 is released with the driver.

Howard Bennett
Racer Wholesale

So how do you keep the belts from slipping off?

(Where's Bob?)



------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

[bobpink]

Here I am Gregg

With the SRS-1 the device there is no actual attachment to the shoulder belts, but is located behind the driver's head by the "cape" and "reaction rod". These help center the device under the shoulder harnesses. This is what allows the driver freedom of movement.

We have not run across any situations where the device can come out from under the harnesses.

Gregg, does it look like you will be able to make the ARRC this year?

------------------
Bob Pinkowski
Atlanta Region SCCA
ITS Honda Prelude

[This message has been edited by bobpink (edited October 14, 2004).]

[gsbaker]

Fascinating.

Yes, I'll be there, trying to find a sub-$500 high-performance head and neck restraint.

------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

[Al Seim]

Gregg:

As to your original "focus group" question:

Thinking about my own recent race car equipment purchases, I'd say that my own point of "what the heck, it's only $xxx" is probably about $350 - $400.

Al Seim
Action Digital Race Data
www.actdigital.com

[gsbaker]

Al,

Thanks.

I think I know where we are on this.

------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

[Quickshoe]

Impromptu market reasearch:

I crewed at an event this weekend where a "safety seminar" was held at lunch time. This is at a track that recently had two fatalaties, and one person airlifted away to a trauma center in tow unrelated accidents. Needles to say, the drivers' meeting had an extra emphasis on safety.

I decided to attend this voluntary seminar to see what I might learn, and what kind of misinformation was out there.

The speaker seemed unbiased and didn't bad mouth or try to sell any particular item. There was good discussion about proper seat mounting (but no discussion of seats having additional lateral head restraints).

A brief discussion about harness material (polyester vs. nylon) and their 'stretch'--yet no mention of proper mounting, routing and need to make certain they are TIGHT.

Fire systems and supplement handhelds were also touched on, among other things.

Finally they discussed the various head and neck restraint systems and their relative effectiveness (in generalities) the pros and cons (in the presenters' eyes) of each. Finally questions were asked about price...

After a 30 minute discussion about safety, combined with the recent deaths at the same facility (4th at the track in the last 3 years that I am aware of) two racers picked up and tried on the HANS, a handful questioned us about the ISAAC and ALL OF THE REST immediately checked out the $200 Wright device. I was asked about the ease of release on the ISAAC and actually heard a jaw or two drop when they saw how quickly I could release the unit.

Yet, at least 90% were checking out the $200 device...I guess I just don't get it.

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by Quickshoe:
...I was asked about the ease of release on the ISAAC and actually heard a jaw or two drop when they saw how quickly I could release the unit.

Yet, at least 90% were checking out the $200 device...I guess I just don't get it.

Thanks Daryl. That was helpful.

We believe most of these $200 lookers consider all H&N restraints to be the same. It's a binary yes/no decision: "I'm safe because I have a H&N restraint."

However, the drivers who have been close to a serious crash study the subject enough to note the difference in the products. We also receive many orders from drivers who have tried other products.

------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

[Campbell]

This is an interesting topic, I keep thinking that I haven't used a H&N system to this point so I have full injury exposure. I can spend $100 to $150 on a Wright device and gain some level of protection (on a scale of 80% or 90% of the most effective?) or $750 or more for leading protection. I think rather than nothing I should at least do the Wright device while sorting out what to do. Continuing with nothing now seems too risky.

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by Campbell:
...I can spend $100 to $150 on a Wright device and gain some level of protection (on a scale of 80% or 90% of the most effective?) or $750 or more for leading protection....

More like 60%-70%. Details are here: http://isaacdirect.com/html/chart.html

By all means, please use something. Jay's design is a good place to start. It works as well as the more heavily promoted designs at a huge discount.

The economic problem with the webbing products comes when the drivers realize they are only good for two years. You can spend over $200 per year for something like a Simpson.

If you want to dip your toe in the H&N restraint water, webbing products are a good place to start. And if you want the best value in a webbing product, use Jay Wright's.


------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

[This message has been edited by gsbaker (edited October 25, 2004).]

[gsbaker]

Oops. Double post.

G

[This message has been edited by gsbaker (edited October 25, 2004).]

[Campbell]

Greg,

What are the light colored boxes on the restraint chart for webbing and the Hans device? thanks