How to make the NARRC more prestigious?

[RKramden]

First off, understand that some of this may cause the entry fee to go up, and it's New York Region's call, as they run the race.

OK, invite only those NARRC drivers that have run at 2 or more NARRC tracks and are currently in the top 2/3rds (maybe 1/2) in points. IIRC, it used to be this way quite some time ago. Greed (or, not losing money) caused NYR to open up the race.

That will cut down a lot of folks, so maybe the entry fee would need to be more than a bit higher.

Also invite the top three in each class in MARRS and NYSRRC (provided they were also in the top half of their class), and turn it into a Area 1,2, 10 shootout.

Also, with fewer cars, maybe we could have less than 10 race groups and actually get some track time. Maybe two or three groups for real race cars and 4 or 5 for those with fenders.

[RSTPerformance]

I have to agree we need more tracks in the NARRC series eventhough NHIS is only 20 minutes for me!!! The series as a whole has been slipping and more races need to be at other tracks I think to bring it back. Although I think that the top 5 is generally well compeated for in each class.

From my understanding it is a regions choice to have a race count towards the NARRC Championship or not... It is not NARRC saying no, we don't want your race to count, it is the regions saying no. I guess this means if you live outside the NER region (where I think every race counts) then get to work go to meetings and have your regions add NARRC championship points to each of your events.

On other notes...

Yes this race used to be by invitation, however I don't like that idea asit would restrict people from outside the northeast from playing with us.

Jake, you need to win a NARRC race , they give out much better trophies than normal and a bottle of champaine rather than water.

Teardowns are a great idea, however as someone mentioned that might be to many teardowns for tech to handle...

Tom- I like the idea of having the "history" of the NARRC Runoffs webpage... anyone have any info or sources to get this info and possibly pictures? (I know I have a few pictures of the 1988 ITA NARRC champion).

And lastly as I mentioned before word of mouth is the best advertizing... great job Kip for getting your bro to come up, if half of us could get a friend from another region to come race think how many people we would have!!!

Raymond "dreaming of a bigger championship" Blethen


[This message has been edited by RSTPerformance (edited November 12, 2004).]

[7racing]

Originally posted by gran racing:
I personally don't like NARRC season points being a focus of this race. Or even proclaiming the NARRC season champion here. (They have an awards dinner for that already, don't they?) I think putting emphasis on the NARRC points would get away from the race being a bigger / non-regionalized race.

No offense here Dave, but the the event we are discussing is the NARRC Run-offs at LRP in late September, right? The emphasis of this race has been that it is the final NARRC race of the season and is double-points. As someone that follows/competes in the NARRC Championship, I would prefer it remain a NARRC run-offs for double points.

Granted, I might enjoy seeing it as a Championship event, not just a regional within the championship.

I think the history of what this race is needs to be remembered and brought forward.

Where are the old-timers in this thread? I see RKramden, where is Dick, Jack Hanifan, Elder Blethen (I'm sure he can use the RST account)?

Jeremy

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...this race used to be by invitation...</font>

Is this a recent or a very old thing? I raced the NARRC Runoffs in 1992 in SSB (I think I won?), and I don't recall having to get an invitation...

Greg

[dickita15]

well greg if you ran it must not have been invitational. go I can't belive I took such a cheap shot, sorry greg.

seriously, when I first started reading this I rooled my eyes as most people making suggestions do not understand the narrc structure, but as i read on I relized I was getting an interesting insight into what some people would like to see. so keep talking, some of this is impossible at this race but that does not mean that many of these ideas could not be used in some manner.
now I am off to long island for the NE Div convention and the NARRC Meeting.
DicK Patullo

[philstireservice]

Hey Guys, here is a chance to learn a little from one of the new guys on the block, NASA. I have raced with SCCA for 13 years and never, at any event, have I ever had a so- called awards ceremony at the end of the day's activities. NASA does it at every event after Saturday's races. Along with the food party, they have the announced trophy presentations complete with "trophy babes" and photos. All the racers love it!!!...men and women alike. Also, starting with EMRA as I did back in the 80's, they always have had an awards ceremony after the day's activities. It's not hard to do. It promotes comraderie and sense of appreciation in front of your racing peers. SCCA, in the Northeast, has a great bunch of competitors. Some of the best in the country. We can do this..... This is when we as racers can bond together as a community and enjoy each others triumphs......

------------------
Phil Phillips
2004 Honda Challenge H3
NASA ECHC CHAMPION

www.philstireservice.com

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">well greg if you ran it must not have been invitational. </font>

To paraphrase one wise forum philosopher: "Well, this is a disturbing turn of events..."

[dazzlesa]

i think we have to create a 10 to 12 race series running during regional races for the north east.we could run one or 2 races at each of these tracks. summit,watkinsglen,nhis,lrp,beaver run,nelson ledges,pocono,vir. there would be a enrollment fee for the year,a points fund fee at each event you run and hopefully some sponser to create a year end prize fund for the top 3.marrs , narrc and nysrrc is too regional to be prestgious.money and magazine coverage brings interest and prestige. just my opinion. rick ITA 06

[dpc]

Tear downs???? It appears that 1 is to many. dave

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by dpc:
Tear downs???? It appears that 1 is to many. dave

Why??


------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[RKramden]

I'd like to clear up some stuff to try to help people understand a bit more, then let people run wild with ideas on how to improve things.

Basically, there is a rules committee/board made up of the RE's of the regions involved. Thats, basically, Area 1 plus MoHud. The RE may defer to others in the region, for example, Dick and Brian M are going to the meeting, and I'll bet they get to say what they want and k.barnes (the RE) pretty much goes along. Kathy is the RE, she runs the region (and IMHO does a super job), but she doesn't micro-manage Racing, Solo or Rally. That is a good thing.

One of the regions does the awards banquet each year, taking turns.

The money for the awards and the checks for the winners (and other high placed drivers) come from a tax. The tax is is something like $6 per entry for all the entries in any NARRC race.

The region (each of them) makes a business decision on if a race they run should be a NARRC race. Basically, does making each race at NHIS make business sense from the viewpoint of attracting more drivers (since it is a NARRC race, and in some cases, a double) vs the cost of having the extra cars (Insurance costs more, and a few other expenses go up a bit.)

In the case of NHIS, NER has made the decision that, yes, it makes business sense to have each race be a NARRC race, so the region pays the NARRC committee the $$$ for each car. Thats your prize money.

One exception was when we had the "Track time is King" races a few years ago. At NHIS, we had practice/qualifying in the AM, and a regional race in the PM that set the grid for the Sunday race. The Sunday race was a NARRC race, but the race the day before was not. It could of been, if the region wanted to pay a second NARRC fee for each car, since drivers would have gotten NARRC points for each race. As it ended up, they did get NERRC points for both because that costs the region nothing extra, but only Sunday was NARRC. Simple business decision.

So, if you want a NARRC race at the Glen, then show either Glen Region of Finger Lakes region why it is a sound business decision (e.g. it will get them lots more entries) to pay the NARRC fees. If you do that, then I'm sure that the NARRC committee will gladly expand the schedule to accomedate them.

I hope that helps people understand what some of the forces driving NARRC are.

Given the above (which is not 100% correct, but I thing it is close) how would you change the structure to get other regions to hold NARRC events, and how do you not hurt regions like NER if you restrict the number of NARRC races that they can hold at NHIS?

And if it is two races at a track, the which two regions get to have their regional at Lime Rock be a NARRC race?

What is the business plan to transition from the current cash flow model to the new one without each region taking it in the shorts in a financial sense?

Just some things to think about when you have (good) ideas.

[dazzlesa]

it sounds like taking away dates will not work.how can we talk to the narrc commitee to add events with other regions.im sure no one wants to hurt regions or the people who help us race, but it would be nice to open it up to more people and tracks.

[gran racing]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">No offense here Dave, but the the event we are discussing is the NARRC Run-offs at LRP in late September, right? The emphasis of this race has been that it is the final NARRC race of the season and is double-points. As someone that follows/competes in the NARRC Championship, I would prefer it remain a NARRC run-offs for double points.</font>

Yeah, I know. I was just hoping for a ARRC similar event here up north. I love the hype and attention the ARRC gets and how it draws people from many various areas.

------------------
Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[RSTPerformance]

dazzlesa-

I don't think you need to convince the NARRC commity, you need to convince the other regions...

Here is one bit of convincing to use... I ONLY race in NARRC events, the GLen Enduro, and the ARRC (I didn't run the Glen this year cause it was not part of NARRC and didn't have the "extra" $$$). Same with my brother. That means if other tracks had NARRC events you would see 2 more cars at those events and yes we would have made the tow, we did it to Pocono. You can use us as an example of last year what would have been but don't count on us next year as everything is still up in the air on what we will do.

Look up how many other people run most of the NARRC series and see if they run those "other" events. Call them and see if they would go to those other tracks you are interested in adding(If they were a NARRC event). Then go to a Comp board meetig and present your findings. Maybe that will convince the region to have a NARRC race.

I think that if you get some "down south" (VIR, summit, etc.) races you will see a much closer points battle even if people are not willing to travel, as you will get more "winners." That might get more people who may never have raced each other to go to the NARRC as whomever wins would win the champion.

Raymond

[RKramden]

If you do the math, it takes about 8-10 extra cars to make it worth making a race a NARRC race. That is the money side of it.

I was rather shocked by how few cars are needed to hit break even

8 or 10 cars isn't a whole lot.

If the Glen was added as a NARRC race, then there would be a points bonus for running at yet another track, a reason why some of those crusty New Englanders would make the tow out there.

The math:

$200 entry fee, for 200 cars. $6 times 200 is a $1200 NARRC fee.

I assumed that the incremental cost was about $60 per car, and that is high.

So, profit per additional car is about $140.

Thats 8.5 cars to recover the cost, less if the incremental costs are lower. If the Incremental costs are about $40, then thats only 7.5 cars. If the entry fee is higher (like $230) then the break even car count drops even more to just over 6 cars.

(Note, Glen charged $210 this year and FL charged $225.)

[lateapex911]

I remember looking at the NARRC schedule one time and thinking it wasn't much of a series!

The name sounds impressive, but the schedule isn't!

If it6 were to match its name it would run at NHIS, LRP, WGI, Summit and VIR...

oh...and Pocono...I suppose....

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Pellegrino Family]

Raymond and Stephen,
You have a 25 year history of LRP at your house and I have one too. Let's collaborate on working on a NARRC history. Tom is correct, there was a tremendous amount of prestige in the NARRC Runoffs back when. When your Dad ran the NARRC Runoff that he won in the rain in the Capri, the NARRC champion was determined ONLY by who won that race. It didn't matter how many points you had in the year. For a matter of fact, Norm Latullippe had the most points in ITA that year. The points determined whether or not you were "invited" -- that is, got an entry form for the event. No entry form in the mail, you weren't invited. You had to run at least two of the tracks (Pocono and Bridgehampton were also on the schedule) as well as LRP and back then, Bryar (now NHIS). It was a smaller turnout, yes, but much tougher racing.
I agree, if NYR added the Glen to the series and NNJR another Pocono weekend, it would draw many more. Plus adding Thursday as a practice day and Friday being simply qualifying might help also.
I'd be happy to do a history on it. I believe that there is one in existance at NNJR and I know the History of LRP has some history in it as well.
Trish

[Andy Bettencourt]

Preliminary NARRC Contingency Plan from Flatout Motorsports:

We currently run in two primary classes, SM and ITS. This is where we will focus the payout.

$250 to the "Hard Charger" in each of the two classes. HC is defined as the most positions advanced from Grid/Qual spot to official race finsih results. Tie goes to better qualifying position.

Eligibility? Run two small FOM stickers on your car...

Thoughts? The idea was to create something a little different but something that was been successful in series like Speed World Challenge...

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITS RX-7 and ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[lateapex911]

Good job Flat Out!
(And BIG kudos for making it cash (nad a solid amount too!))

I once won the hard charger award at the OMP deal...$100 in gas at Lime Rock.

Which is like $50 anywhere else, but that's cool.....so, I went to get some gas, but they were out of the stuff I run in my race car. I went back later but the guy was on a break. Then he closed....finally when I got there and he was there, the thing was expired!

My fault of course, but hats off to F.O. and cash prizes with out a lot of BS!

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[RSTPerformance]

What do you folks think of this

The NARRC championship is decided by total points. Each region can have 1 event at as many tracks as feasible. Example NER has evaents at NHIS, LRP, Watkins Glen, Pocono.
NY region has events atLRP , WatkinsGlen, Pocono. MoHud does LRP, Summit Point etc
You get the regions that are involved to pick races that they want to count to the
championship.
Now lets make it interesting

The NARRC RUNOFFS is double points but also special trophies, prizes & contingencies.


Only the top 10 in NARRC points are invited,
the others are probably out of the chase.

NOW

The top 10 at lasr years ARRC are invited.
As are the top 10 in MARRS, NYSRRC etc across
the country.

This is not to take anything from the ARRC

Road Atlanta works better than LRP as a venue
for a national championship race,however, if you are in the top 10 in your region you are
good enough to join us.

The NARRC RUNOFFS have been a premier event for many years. I would like it to be the
premier event in the northeast

Tom