Run groups esp. ITS

[rbt510]

For 2004 there are two nationals and 3 regionals plus the NARRC runnoffs at Lime Rock. Getting more dates is most likely not an option, so you can't limit the number of races available to some classes. All classes except IT and SM are national classes, but you never know how many people are going to register for a each class or event. Lime Rock race on May 8th had 60+ cars in SSM and SM, but Pocono had under 15 and it ran with ITAITC. I don't think eliminating Open wheels classes, or any class for that matter is the answer. I would rather they adjust the race groups based on who shows up to maximize the track time and safety for everyone.....

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Bob



[This message has been edited by rbt510 (edited May 26, 2004).]

[lateapex911]

Generally speaking, and others can correct me here, but aren't regionals the cash cos, and Nationals the (potential) money losers?

I am of the belief that, in general, Regional racing is waht makes the Regions their profit, and allows the show to continue.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Karl Bocchieri]

It would be interesting to see the balance sheets for the regions in relation to the profit/loss for regional,national,solo,and rally racing. Unfortunatly I think that most regions clump club racing together (reg.+nat.).

On a similar note I wrote the BOD and asked why stats of cars and classes in regional racing are not recorded and printed in Fastrack like they are for national racing. They said that they are going to start that soon. It will be interesting to see how many IT racers there are in comparison to the other classes, and their avg. participation numbers vs. other classes.

[RKramden]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
I am of the belief that, in general, Regional racing is waht makes the Regions their profit, and allows the show to continue.

Jake, next Comp Board meeting you go to, pay attention when Elisabeth goes over the numbers.

IIRC, the region makes money on Nationals and Regionals, but loses money on the Drivers Schools. It's often hard to tell, as the costs of the Drivers School and the Regional the same weekend get lumped together as many of the costs are shared.

I know for other regions this is not always true, but in the Northeast, it's mostly true.

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by RKramden:
Jake, next Comp Board meeting you go to, pay attention when Elisabeth goes over the numbers.

IIRC, the region makes money on Nationals and Regionals, but loses money on the Drivers Schools. It's often hard to tell, as the costs of the Drivers School and the Regional the same weekend get lumped together as many of the costs are shared.

I know for other regions this is not always true, but in the Northeast, it's mostly true.

Well, its a long drive and it's tough to be there for the treasurers report! But I have made it often enough to know that the Regionals are more likely to pull the cash in.

And I was speaking generally, because nationally, I think it is even more the case.

In terms of groups, I do think that flexibility at the event is key, as the numbers do change. Lime Rock is the toughest, as it draws the biggest crowd, and the allowable racing time is shorter than almost any track in the country.

I give our folks good grades considering we have huge turnouts at a difficult venue.

That said, someone upstairs needs to understand that many race cars overheat at the speeds we were lapping at behind the pace car. A 'black flag all' was the obvious call, at least to me, as I drove by and got a look on the second lap and thought, "This is gonna take forever."



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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[gran racing]

What makes thing tough is that several regions run regionals at LRP. I'm slowly getting over the fact that ITA/ITC had no race. And it is not the fault of the person that had the incident. (Ironically enough, my wheel bored out when heat cycling the tires one week prior to the race. So, yes it could have been me.)

What is hard is that if another region has issues with a group (yeah, me, me, me) they would say the same thing. This is the first time this year we had an issue. But to that person, it isn't the first time because they run several races at LRP with different regions. What is the solution? Unfortunately I have no idea. Wish I did.

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[JeffYoung]

The ITA car counts at Lime Rock amaze me. At my home track (VIR), we are lucky to get 4-5 cars. 12-14 ITS cars is a good field and IT7 usually has 10 or so (maybe that's where all the ITA cars are........). Total fun group of 25-30 on a 3.27 mile track..(imagine that: room to run).

Down here, SM is the class that ate IT. Everyone is building one of the damn things.

[ITSRX7]

Ready for this Jeff? Sorry - no TR8's

1st Regional at LRP 2-3 weeks ago:

ITS/ITB: 39 cars
SM/SSM: 54 cars
ITA/ITC: 38 cars

LRP is a 1.5ish mile track with a maxed-out max of 40 cars per run group.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by ITSRX7:
Ready for this Jeff? Sorry - no TR8's

1st Regional at LRP 2-3 weeks ago:

ITS/ITB: 39 cars
SM/SSM: 54 cars
ITA/ITC: 38 cars

LRP is a 1.5ish mile track with a maxed-out max of 40 cars per run group.

AB

this is intersting as SM (nad the NE version, SSM, are closer to IT thatn anything, the total car count for IT is 131, well over 50% of the field.

RX-7s here are down...we have no IT7, and some folks have given up. This past race we had 4 I think, with 4 other regulars not on the track yet.



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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[JeffYoung]

I would say that IT7 "saved" the RX7 in my region, except that the 3-4 fastest Ist Gen RX7s run near the front of ITA and the fastest is damn near as fast as the ITS cars.

Jake, you think at LRP, an IT7 class would help bring back those 7s that are just sitting around? I imagine that they are still, by number, the most popular Club Racing car out there. MARRS has a HUGE SRX7 population, and IT7 is big here in the SEDiv.

If there were a national set of rules for IT7 like SM, I think the car could benefit from it.

But still, the A counts at LRP AMAZE me, especially if there aren't a whole bunch of 7s. What kind of cars are we talking about? A bunch of CRXs? Or is there variety?

[lateapex911]

here's the count-
Honda Civics-6
Honda CRX-4
Acura Integra-4 (and 3 more that were no shows)
Mazda RX-7- 4
Mazda Miata -3
VW Golfs -3
Honda Prelude- 2
BMW 2002 - 2
Toyota MR-2 -1
Ford Escort - 1
Nissan 240 SX -1 (and 1 no show)

Honda seems to hold the lions share, with 16, folowed by mazda with 7

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[JeffYoung]

Interesting. That's a great mix, and what IT is supposed to be about. Any one make dominate? Or do the CRXs split time on the podium with the Acuras and the 240s and the RX7s?

Another A car that did well down here was the Protege. Interesting.

And Andy...no TR8s....uh...there's a REASON for that....lol.

[gran racing]

CRX and the Integra.

But that is just what has been more developed then other cars and people seem to gravitate to these. I still think the 240 could be a good car to have.

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[lateapex911]

Well...it seems the guys in the NE think the Integra is the platform to have. Serra just turned a 1:01.9 in his in qualifying. Guys who have beaten the RX-7 development deal to death go out and get a new car, like an Integra with a stock motor and are instantly in the 3s.

The 240 hasn't seen much action here. I suspect it is due to high initial cost, and the relatively difficult development process.

The fastest CRX has turned low 1:02s, with a very experienced driver who is quite good.

With fields of 7 Integras, 4 CRXs, a 240 or 2, the best the rest of us can hope for is mid pack. My RX-7 sees the 4s occasionally and I feel the 3s are possible, but thats a long way from the front, esp. when it gets engulfed by all the cars with torque at the start.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[JeffYoung]

Jake, do you race other places, like maybe Watkins Glen or Pocono, where the 7 can get wound up and stay wound up?

[lateapex911]

At the Glen, the hills are tough...just not enough oomph... and I have raced at Pocono, but it was in a light crowd of 8 or 9, I ran 2nd....BUT, none of the fast guns were there. It was years ago, ...'97?

So a big "I dunno" about Pocono. I do run NHIS, and the car is stronger there, but it's still well off the pace, but I'll keep plugging and developing. Off to the dyno next week (If the A/F meter arrives) to do some carb tuning and some exhaust testing.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]