Originally posted by ed325its:
Andy,

You agree with me, make additional statements, and still provide no proof. What documentation exists that Kip's E36 dyno'ed at 208 Whp? What documentation exists that an East Coast tuner is quoteing 215Whp - 220 Whp?

I disagree that the ITAC and/or the CRB should not reveal the data, method, and end goal used in this process. No commitee of this club should operate in secrecy. The results either stand on there own or they don't. Those methods should then be applied to all auto's and not just the percevied overdogs. Otherwise the process remains very political.
Ed,

What proof do you need? When Kip has his 944S out next year, pull him aside and ASK him what his E36 put to the ground. He will tell you. He will also tell you how he got the power, where he dynoed the car and how long it took him to get it there. I know his dyno guy. I will ask him if it's ok to contact him and see if he has the files available.

As far as the DIRECT quote from the East coast tuner, do you want it in transcript form or an actual taped phone conversation? We can get with Kip on that one too. Seriously, if you don't believe the numbers, just say so. THEN tell us all what you have done to your motor and we can compare line by line what the difference is between the 10/10ths stuff and the 9/10ths stuff.

If you think the members on this board are acting in secrecy, then I hate to think what the perception was in the past. How is this:

The E36 was classed in ITS. After some initial weight shuffling, it settled in at 2850.

Rumors of very powerful cars started surfacing. Lap times and straight-away speeds started validationg those rumors.

Top drivers in RX-7's and 240Z's started migrating to the E36. Top tuners started perfecting their formulas for power.

3 years in a row E36's have dominated the ARRC (in 2002 the top cars were booted for a ballast technicality, domination none-the-less).

Dyno sheets and conversations with tuners have confirmed power outputs. Very powerful and expensive RX-7's, 240Z's and GSR's get eaten alive on long straights. A combination of an under-estimation of the stock power level and, it would seem, an under-estimation of the power potential in IT trim have created an overdog, not a perceived one, but an actual one.

In IT trim, the Bimmer has a power to weight of 11.4. The RX-7 is 13.0. Others are worse than that. That is a 15% difference in P/W. HUGE.

Again, I am providing NUMBERS based on information. Tell me how you would like to see the proof and I will work on it. I certainly understand that people may want to know but until you have gone 10/10ths, I don't feel anyone has grounds to dispute the data we have HONESTLY obtained, until they can provide some to the contrary. You have the RIGHT to do anything, but in good faith, I say no.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITS RX-7 and ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com