passing under double yellow

[RKramden]

And here I was hoping that this whole topic would have died weeks ago, long before it got to the insult stage.

[moto62]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
Raymond "I like to wave to the workers, not other drivers" Blethen

Thats it. I am waiving your right to free beer at my beer parties. Get It? Wave, waive?
Ray

[grjones1]

Alan and David,
Gosh, you guys must be great drivers and I'm really sorry I suggested you couldn't stand on your ear and drive at the same time.
And Alan, "shifting" is part of the act of "controlling" your car, "waving" is not controlling your car. Further, I usually have my shifting accomplished before I start pulling 1 g, but I guess that's an "old-fashioned" method. (I've got sooo much to learn from you guys.)

Anyway, when you enter a yellow situation driving with one hand on the wheel and snap spin on the oil the car in front has laid down when his engine blew, and you break a wrist because the steering wheel suddenly pops from your one-handed death grip, remember my suggestion. But of course these things never happen to "expert" drivers.
GRJ
[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited June 03, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited June 03, 2004).]

[oanglade]

Originally posted by grjones1:
Alan and David,
Gosh, you guys must be great drivers and I'm really sorry I suggested you couldn't stand on your ear and drive at the same time.
And Alan, "shifting" is part of the act of "controlling" your car, "waving" is not controlling your car.

Anyway, when you enter a yellow situation driving with one hand on the wheel and snap spin on the oil the car in front has laid down when his engine blew, and you break a wrist because the steering wheel suddenly popped from your one-handed death grip, remember my suggestion. But of course these things never happen to "expert" drivers.
GRJ

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited June 03, 2004).]

Will it be OK if that happens because they were shifting when it happened?



------------------
Ony Anglade
ITA Miata
Sugar Hill, GA

[grjones1]

[quote]Originally posted by oanglade:
[B]
Will it be OK if that happens because they were shifting when it happened?

________________________________
It's ok with me if they wind up on their heads, as long as I'm not taken out with them.
Come on Ony, shifting is necessary, waving is not, and of course the more time spent with one hand on the wheel increases time spent with less control.
G

[grjones1]

[quote]Originally posted by apr67:
[
I will still continue to use a rasied fist to indicate that I am slowing for a non-normal reason.
________
apr67,
I'm continuing this ad nauseum, but just to attempt another point:
When I have (and sparsely) attempted to communicate with another driver and I used a fist, it mean't that I was not pleased with something he had done. See how these hand signals can be misinterpreted? You are raising a fist to warn of impending disaster I am raising a fist to indicate displeasure. How is the guy behind supposed to know what we are telling him? These questions are of course rhetorical.
G
___________________________________


[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited June 03, 2004).]

[apr67]

Originally posted by grjones1:
Alan and David, Further, I usually have my shifting accomplished before I start pulling 1 g, but I guess that's an "old-fashioned" method. (I've got sooo much to learn from you guys.)

You are pulling 1g just sitting their typing a message. So unless you race in micro gravity

I shift where the car needs it. Sometimes I move it up or back a bit to allow more concentration on driving, but it depends on the corner. Turn 12 at atlanta, it depends on traffic (not a very busy corner).

I apologize for insinuating that you were a poor driver, it was more of a knee jerk reaction to your assuming that a driver could not maintain control of the car while taking a hand off of the wheel. That was calling me (defacto) a bad driver and I resent that.

If the feeces was hitting the fan, then I would not bother to signal, too much work to be done already. Also, if you don't see the big event, you likely won't see my hand either.

Alan




[This message has been edited by apr67 (edited June 03, 2004).]

[apr67]

[quote]Originally posted by grjones1:

Originally posted by apr67:

When I have (and sparsely) attempted to communicate with another driver and I used a fist, it mean't that I was not pleased with something he had done. See how these hand signals can be misinterpreted? You are raising a fist to warn of impending disaster I am raising a fist to indicate displeasure. How is the guy behind supposed to know what we are telling him?

Use the fist with the middle finger raised!

[Geezer]

Originally posted by apr67:
Use the fist with the middle finger raised!

NASA has that covered already

19.5.4 Other Hand Signals - driver
For safety reasons, hand signals not listed above are not acceptable. Displaying the
middle finger to another driver will be considered unsportsmanlike conduct. Displaying the middle finger to an Official is not smart and not recommended.



------------------
1988 CRX Si
ECHC H4 #38

[grjones1]

Alan,
I see you are an engineer, so maybe you can help me on this. I understand 1g represents the point at which a car is cornering with adhesion in place at a measure equal to its weight, e.g., when cornering capability of a production car is listed in say Car and Driver, one usually reads .60 (for say a Fiesta) and .83 (for say, a 911). Which leads one to beleive that hopefiuuly well prepared IT cars may be capable of 1g. Where did I go wrong with my interpretation?
GRJ

PS
I reserve the middle finger for those guys who have attempted to remove me from the track, and I beat them anyway.
And Geezer,
Even though I cherish your comments, this is an IT forum and IT is after all an SCCA class, and NASA rules don't apply. But stay in here anyway, I enjoy hearing from you (if that matters).

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited June 03, 2004).]

[grjones1]

I shift where the car needs it. Sometimes I move it up or back a bit to allow more concentration on driving, but it depends on the corner. Turn 12 at atlanta, it depends on traffic (not a very busy corner).
_______________________________________
Alan,
I was refering (ironically) to what I find a curious practice by some younger drivers (of course about 99% are young compared to me) of downshifting at or after the apex. I'll never see the logic of that technique, but again tell me if I'm wrong. Need I say, I'm old school and do my braking and downshifting in a straight line wherever possible.
G

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited June 03, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited June 03, 2004).]

[apr67]

Shift where the car needs it, even if it is the apex. If I can safely.

Where the car needs it? Quite simply, when the calculated torque of the new gear will meet or exceed the calculated torque of the existing gear.

http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/whentoshift.htm

As for G's. You are pulling 1 G right now. (I'm pulling a bit more, big lunch!). That would be in the vertical axis. But I'm pulling Zero in the horizontal axis. 1g lateraly is a bit harder to do when typing.

[grjones1]

[quote]Originally posted by apr67:
[B]Shift where the car needs it, even if it is the apex. If I can safely.

As for G's. You are pulling 1 G right now. (I'm pulling a bit more, big lunch!). That would be in the vertical axis.
________________________________________
Great stuff thanks. But, we were discussing what's happening in a corner and in that context, it's lateral G's we were considering. I understand your "vertical" aside, however.

Now if I'm having to downshift at or after the apex, I always figure I've screwed up my approach, but that's just me I guess. (And of course I'm not talking about the upshift, the only place I think I've ever had to upshift on an apex is the esses at Summit Point when the car would only pull 6ooo rpm, and I was simply running out of motor, but we have got that sorted out.

I must say I'm never comfortable shifting up or down at full lateral G's, I guess my left arm is not as strong as yours.

GRJ

[apr67]

Its whats fastest. In some cars, with some gears, I can shift at otherwise awkward points (near an apex) and it makes the car faster (on the stopwatch).

Other cars (like my old ITB rabbit) tend to bind up in the corner and it makes shifting a very low percentage process (you may get the wrong gear, or no gear!).

And if I am hounding someone I may find it is an advantage in that instance to over rev instead of shifting, or to short shift.

Getting back on topic.

Hand Signals can be misunderstood. The driver seeing a signal needs to view a hand signal the same way they view a passing flag. I don't have to do anything at all, but I should do a little more looking up track and a little less looking at the cute spectator in the string bikini.

If during a yellow situation a driver gives the indications of a 'disabled vehicle' just to get you in trouble, they should be taken outside of the track, tied down, covered with honey and sprinkled with red ants.

Alan

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by apr67:
I don't have to do anything at all, but I should do a little more looking up track and a little less looking at the cute spectator in the string bikini.
Alan

Alan please tell us about the tracks you frequent.....

sorry, but this thread has broken down to whiny name calling like no thread has here in a long time...I wanted some levity.

Resume whining!


------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[grjones1]

Now Jake, we had stopped whininng and were getting along famously when you broke in to find out where the string bikinis are.
GRJ

[apr67]

Moroso Motorsports Park.

In west palm BEACH.

Need I say more?



p.s. Their used to be a worker with big hooters that worked everyones favorite corner at hallet.. I wonder if she is still there.

[gsbaker]

Go easy on Jake, guys. He's responsible for collecting the hot tub attendants for the First Annual ARRC IT.com Gathering this year.

He needs all the research help he can get.

Gregg

[grjones1]

[quote]Originally posted by apr67:
[B]Moroso Motorsports Park.
__________________________________
Remember guys we are in mixed company. But I'm wondering how many missed shifts may have occurred at that "favorite corner"?

And Alan I heartily agree with your last yellow flag comments.
GRJ

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited June 04, 2004).]

[planet6racing]

Well, this certainly got cleared up in the September Fastrack, didn't it...

------------------
Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com