Originally posted by Bill Miller:
And no, I'm not satisfied w/ your answer, because it never really addressed my original question, which was about the Rabbit GTI 1.8 . I asked you what the weight would be in both ITB and ITC, based on your 'standardized method'. Somebody else also asked for the weight of the 1.8 8v Scirocco.
... And I've already given you that answer... Without having a full VTS sheet to understand the brakes, transmission ratios, etc... and just going off of your 90hp estimate for stock hp... initial weights come in as follows:

Rabbit GTI 1.8L:
ITC ~ 2250lbs
ITB ~ 2050lbs

But, again, that's before talking to anyone who knows anything about these cars... Given the fact that it has almost 20 more stock hp than the 1.6L, and given the performance of the 1.6L in ITC, some discussion would have to take place as to whether or not these weights would seem reasonable...


Originally posted by Bill Miller:
When I asked for the 1.7 VWs to be moved to ITC, I also asked for the 1.8 A1 8v cars to be moved as well (as did others). The FasTrack response was that the cars were 'too fast'. Yet only 2-3 months later, the ITAC is recommending that the 1.7 cars be moved to ITC. Either the initial request didn't get due consideration, or something changed in those couple of months. Maybe you were wrong about the 1.8 8v A1 cars as well.
The initial request was rejected, and some of us on the ITAC insisted that this be revisited. But you already know this because you and I have corresponded about this previously. I personally put up a pretty decent fight to help get the 1.7Ls moved to ITC... But let's look at some "evidence" when comparing the 1.7Ls to the 1.8Ls... The 1.7's make very little more hp than the 1.6L, and most who we talked to say the 1.7L is a dog even compared to the 1.6L... The 1.8L, on the other hand, makes almost 20hp more in stock trim... makes moving it a little harder to justify.

Additionally, things were and are still changing... We are very close to having PCAs implemented, which, as you are well aware, change things a bit... We can now move cars without a battle over adjusting the weight (with PCAs)... We are also beginning to take a more global look at IT to see what classifications might need consideration WITHOUT having to receive a request to move them or adjust them... etc. etc. etc...

So, just because I don't have the e-mails any longer that detailed the information I professed to having, doesn't mean I didn't have it... Oh, and by the way... I NEVER said I had any "concrete info" on the 1.8L motors... I was referring to the HP output of the 1.6L motors, which you say is around 99hp, and I was told was more in the neighborhood of 105-112hp... Either way, it seems we at least agree that the 1.6L needs no adjustments in ITC...

A reality that many are going to have to face is that there are going to be cases where some cars just fit the scope of one class better than another, even if they end up being somewhat underdogs in the class they are in.... Every class has a range of performance, and some cars are naturally going to fall in the lower end of that range... Keep in mind the intent of IT before you start getting up in arms about this, because nowhere in our charter as ITAC members have we ever said it was our intent to change the intent of IT... We are trying to make it better... make competition closer, but in the end, we are still only trying to balance things better than in the past... there are still going to be cars that just don't quite fit. I have a feeling they will be few and far between, and if the NB classification in ITC works out, then that may open the door for some other options for some other cars...

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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX


[This message has been edited by Banzai240 (edited August 13, 2004).]