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Thread: Getting Rid of Regional/Majors Distinction?

  1. #21
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    I am not trying to...

    Get rid of the confusing majors ect so that every "race weekend" is the same. Make specific classes listed at the beginning if the year as runoffs eligible... ie post the runoffs schedule at the beginning of the season and let people pick a class to race in and commit all their money to. With that being said don't ever include IT in the "runoffs" race week. Still have divisional champions in IT and maybe bring back the ARRC as the place to play for a national IT championship.

    Does that make me sense without contradicting myself?
    Stephen

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenB View Post
    Get rid of the confusing majors ect so that every "race weekend" is the same. Make specific classes listed at the beginning if the year as runoffs eligible... ie post the runoffs schedule at the beginning of the season and let people pick a class to race in and commit all their money to. With that being said don't ever include IT in the "runoffs" race week. Still have divisional champions in IT and maybe bring back the ARRC as the place to play for a national IT championship.

    Does that make me sense without contradicting myself?
    No. The point of Majors events is to present a unique, low-volume product with the goal to qualify for the Runoffs. Everything you just said above contradicts that.

    Well, except if you removed all references to Improved Touring, at which point we could create a different kind of product, keep it more regional, put in local/regional classes, and call it...wait for it...
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

  3. #23
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    I think it would be a bad thing to get rid of Majors, or Nationals as they were in the past. There are many drivers at Regionals that can run with most of the top drivers in our club. That said there are many that would find they are just a big fish in a small pond. If you do not like drivers with stickers every session, and want 200 TW tires you will not be happy running Majors. Ignoring the class consolidation attempt for the moment, we need a place for drivers to play at a higher level below a Pro series. Majors have started to cluster the drivers at fewer races and helped bring up the field size in some areas. The killing of the regional programs in those areas is the result of not allowing those regions to add a regional group to the schedule to stay financially viable.

    What the club should do is allow a regional grouping at Majors, separate from the Majors entry like we do with enduro groups now. Even IMSA saw that as positive with the Pro IT series at their pro event. Would help finances and give all our members a chance to see how things are outside our inner circle. If you have a car that fits the Majors then just run that group.
    Steve Eckerich
    ITS 18 Speedsource RX7
    ITR RX8 (under construction)

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by seckerich View Post
    The killing of the regional programs in those areas is the result of not allowing those regions to add a regional group to the schedule to stay financially viable.

    What the club should do is allow a regional grouping at Majors, separate from the Majors entry like we do with enduro groups now. Even IMSA saw that as positive with the Pro IT series at their pro event. Would help finances and give all our members a chance to see how things are outside our inner circle. If you have a car that fits the Majors then just run that group.
    Two years late the BoD recognized the folly of not allowing regional-only run groups at Majors events, but for 2015 they are now only allowed at "historically low subscription events". I'm not sure. but I think that means events that project less than 100 entries based on past performance. And I'm not in the inner loop any longer (and am trying not to care) so I'm not sure if that means regional-only classes can share the track with Majors classes or not (by BoD edict they could not in 2013).

    And if every "race weekend" is the same (as StephenB suggests), where do the Enduros (yes Dr. K, I know 90 minutes with a mandatory pit stop is not considered an "enduro" in some circles ) fit into the mix? Typically those races are shunned by slick-shod cars (GT, Prod, FSR) and are instead populated by their DOT-tired brethren and, at least in some areas, SRF.
    Butch Kummer
    Former SCCA Director of Club Racing (July 2012 - Sept 2014)
    2006, 2007, 2010 SARRC GTA Champion

  5. #25
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    Put all regional classes on 200tw shoes and let them have some fun!

    I know how ridiculous that sounds, but after some thought, it could be a winner.

    Let those egomaniacs with inferiority complexes run "nationals" or whatever they will call them, and piss their money away resentfully, while we nitwits have a ball.
    phil hunt

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch Kummer View Post
    Two years late the BoD recognized the folly of not allowing regional-only run groups at Majors events, but for 2015 they are now only allowed at "historically low subscription events". I'm not sure. but I think that means events that project less than 100 entries based on past performance. And I'm not in the inner loop any longer (and am trying not to care) so I'm not sure if that means regional-only classes can share the track with Majors classes or not (by BoD edict they could not in 2013).

    And if every "race weekend" is the same (as StephenB suggests), where do the Enduros (yes Dr. K, I know 90 minutes with a mandatory pit stop is not considered an "enduro" in some circles ) fit into the mix? Typically those races are shunned by slick-shod cars (GT, Prod, FSR) and are instead populated by their DOT-tired brethren and, at least in some areas, SRF.
    I wish all the regions holding a Majors would just tell the BOD what they want. not the other way around. Would get fixed quick. We get lectured about the club needing to reach out by our new president all while excluding a good portion of the membership from racing on a Majors weekend.
    Steve Eckerich
    ITS 18 Speedsource RX7
    ITR RX8 (under construction)

  7. #27
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    Butch can respond on the details, but regions don't hold the Majors; Majors events are a product of Topeka and are basically managed top-down from Topeka with the sanctioning region's assistance and volunteers. Reason being, they're looking to maintain a specific method and process for all Majors events.

    Majors are a totally different product than Regionals, in many ways.
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

  8. #28
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    The IT group gets to run at the Kansas Speedway Majors in 2015.
    Ralf
    ITB Golf GT

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Amy View Post
    Butch can respond on the details, but regions don't hold the Majors; Majors events are a product of Topeka and are basically managed top-down from Topeka with the sanctioning region's assistance and volunteers. Reason being, they're looking to maintain a specific method and process for all Majors events.

    Majors are a totally different product than Regionals, in many ways.
    For the most part Greg, the regions book the track and have a contract with national office to run the event. Regions still hold the dates at the tracks and have the leverage to get some things done.
    Steve Eckerich
    ITS 18 Speedsource RX7
    ITR RX8 (under construction)

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    The IT group gets to run at the Kansas Speedway Majors in 2015.
    A couple years ago the IT group ran on a pro weekend at mid-ohi . Really wish I had made one of thos .
    1985 CRX Si competed in Solo II: AS, CS, DS, GS
    1986 CRX Si competed in: SCCA Solo II CSP, SCCA ITA, SCCA ITB, NASA H5
    1988 CRX Si competed in ITA & STL

  11. #31
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    Greg

    Butch can respond on the details, but regions don't hold the Majors; Majors events are a product of Topeka and are basically managed top-down from Topeka with the sanctioning region's assistance and volunteers. Reason being, they're looking to maintain a specific method and process for all Majors events.
    For Majors, the schedule / race groups are discussed between Club Racing and the organizing region, then included in event agreement. The Club Racing input is intended to provide consistency between the Majors events in the conference. The Supps are developed by the region within certain requirements for Majors. The region is entirely responsible for running the event.

    Terry

  12. #32
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    Roger. So...why are the regions being restricted from adding Regional classes? Doesn't sound like they are "entirely responsible for running the event."

    Me, I don't care, as long as it doesn't add a significant speed variation to my group and doesn't cut into my track time. Or if it does, better damn well drop the entry fees significantly from ~$650.

    GA
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Amy View Post
    Roger. So...why are the regions being restricted from adding Regional classes? Doesn't sound like they are "entirely responsible for running the event."

    Me, I don't care, as long as it doesn't add a significant speed variation to my group and doesn't cut into my track time. Or if it does, better damn well drop the entry fees significantly from ~$650.

    GA
    Jeebus, majors are ~$650? Whaddya suppose an average weekend for a well set up HP car would cost including consumables?

  14. #34
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    2015 Homestead is $595, Sebring $575. Watkins Glen last year was $625, and Summit and NJMP were high fives? I seem to recall a $650 hit, but maybe that was in 2013.

    2014 Runoffs test day was $300 for two 30-minute sessions, and event entry was $950 for three 20(?)-minute qualifiers and the 40-minute race (we got a $50 post-event rebate due to higher-than-anticipated entries).

    "Be careful what you ask for..."
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Amy View Post
    Roger. So...why are the regions being restricted from adding Regional classes? Doesn't sound like they are "entirely responsible for running the event."

    Me, I don't care, as long as it doesn't add a significant speed variation to my group and doesn't cut into my track time. Or if it does, better damn well drop the entry fees significantly from ~$650.

    GA
    As Terry said, in 2013 & 2014 the weekend schedule was a joint decision between the host region and the Director of Club Racing (me). Both parties had "veto power" over what was offered, but the BoD also established requirements for what could be included (which I was tasked with enforcing). In most cases we were able to work out an agreement with no loss of lives, and I expect 2015 will be similar (except I'm obviously no longer part of the process).

    SFR did not host a Majors event in 2013 because they wanted to include their regional-only classes in the same run groups with Majors cars (thus increasing clutter) and that was not allowed per the "no more Rationals" guidelines I was given. I also caught crap for allowing Atlanta Region to run a Pro-IT qualifier and race as part of their 2013 Majors weekend even though it did not impact the track time offered to the Majors drivers. Selected BoD members (Kephart and Langlotz) also started giving me shit about allowing PDX sessions at a Majors weekend until I explained the nuances of county-mandated Quiet Time at Road Atlanta.

    And the only Majors event with a $650 entry fee was CoTA in 2013. WGI was $625 in 2014 and all the others have been under $600. With a few exceptions (mainly the West Coast in 2014 because of renewed interest due to the Runoffs) three-day Majors are in the $550-$575 range while the two-day events have been $450-$495. As before, I expect those will remain similar in 2015.
    Butch Kummer
    Former SCCA Director of Club Racing (July 2012 - Sept 2014)
    2006, 2007, 2010 SARRC GTA Champion

  16. #36
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    OUBOB, I get 1000$ plus fuel and tires for 2 days.600 more for each day. So figure that many are spending about 3K per race as rentals or a little less as owners. maybe 2K .
    I have 3HP cars , 2 of which are top 3 cars at most tracks.
    The issue that I and my my well funded drivers have, is that the majors have qualifying on Fri. The majors appears to be aimed at retired rich guys and fly in A&D.
    The real world guys with jobs just dont fit.
    I have set up our runoffs qualifying around the regionals/Division with some room to run the later Majors.
    The national drivers, (old guys mostly ) really believe that the regional drivers are less worthy. As they race in their divisions at Majors , they do see the same 5 drivers and know what to expect of each other , so the concept is not invalid.
    Mike Ogren , FWDracingguide.com, 352.4288.983 ,http://www.ogren-engineering.com/

  17. #37
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    is that the majors have qualifying on Fri.
    Vacation time. I love events where I don't need to take a day off, but nothing that I don't account for when planning a race schedule. Now the craziness schedule of the Runoffs? Nope.
    Dave Gran
    Real Roads, Real Car Guys Real World Road Tests
    Go Ahead - Take the Wheel's Free Guide to Racing

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyinglizard View Post
    they do see the same 5 drivers and know what to expect of each other .
    Is it that many?

    Seriously though, what is the average participation of a majors class race with, and without, SM & SRF factored in?

  19. #39
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    Steve Eckerich
    ITS 18 Speedsource RX7
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by seckerich View Post
    Two things to note: The last two events listed are Festivals, so there were 25 Majors weekends in 2014. Also there were four conferences, but all the "Eastern" numbers are obviously reported under the "Southeast" column. Other than that, crunch numbers to your heart's delight...

    On Edit: I believe the numbers presented here come from the results files submitted by the regions, and in some cases those included no-shows. Out of curiosity I compared them to the number I kept based on what I invoiced each region, and they're reasonably close. From my numbers, excluding festivals, for comparison:

    . 2013 - 3384 total entries over 19 events, or 178.08 entries/weekend
    . 2014 - 4544 total entries over 25 events, or 181.76 entries/weekend

    And in 2014 there was no Majors event at CoTA, which accounted for 468 of that year's entries.
    Last edited by Butch Kummer; 12-15-2014 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Curiosity...
    Butch Kummer
    Former SCCA Director of Club Racing (July 2012 - Sept 2014)
    2006, 2007, 2010 SARRC GTA Champion

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