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Thread: Question regarding rules for wheel width on an IT car in solo FSP

  1. #1

    Default Question regarding rules for wheel width on an IT car in solo FSP

    I inherited a family member's 1987 CRX that was raced in IT for years. In the last few years she had it in ITE or ITX (the class designation on the side of the car is ITE/X). I understand E and X are regional classes.

    I've been entering the car in Street Prepared at various regional events - CSP last year and this year FSP after the class change. Rules for solo indicate that I can use either the IT or FSP rule set, but cannot mix the two.

    IT rules put the CRX Si in ITC. From what I can find, maximum wheel width for ITC is 6". Minimum wheel diameter is 13", maximum I think 15".

    But, the car was not in ITC, it was in ITE/X, and I cannot find anything regarding wheel widths for ITE or ITX. The rules regarding those classes for the region the car was in and others make no mention of wheel size. I have one set of wheels that were used on the car in IT and they are 14 x 7, and another set I do not have but I know were used were 6 1/2".

    I trying to get some idea of what rules would be used at a national solo event. Would I be limited to a 6" wheel?

    Can anyone shed some light on this?

  2. #2
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    ITE is generally an 'open' class for cars prepped to IT (or better) safety standards but may not fit anywhere else. So I guess you could run whatever wheel you wanted and claim "it's legal that way in ITE!"

    That said, what's the wheel size limit in FSP? does it work with the car to run that and then they shouldn't complain one way or the other?
    Houston Region
    STU Nissan 240SX
    EProd RX7

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt93SE View Post
    ITE is generally an 'open' class for cars prepped to IT (or better) safety standards but may not fit anywhere else. So I guess you could run whatever wheel you wanted and claim "it's legal that way in ITE!"

    That said, what's the wheel size limit in FSP? does it work with the car to run that and then they shouldn't complain one way or the other?
    Thanks for the reply. Wheel sizes are unrestricted in Street Prepared, but the car is prepared for IT and I can't mix the two sets.

    As it sits now, if it doesn't meet the IT rules it would end up in G Prepared. In order to comply with the Street Prepared rules I'd have to change a lot, like add an interior, change the driver seat, etc.

    Technically it does not conform to the IT rules since I took the door panels off (I primarily race in the local NASA-X and I took them off to save weight, and that does not incur any class points), but it's a simple matter to put them back on. The local region doesn't really care but they are encouraging me to compete at a national event and I'm sure someone there will care, particularly if I beat them
    Last edited by Andy69; 08-28-2014 at 11:15 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    Thanks for the reply. Wheel sizes are unrestricted in Street Prepared, but the car is prepared for IT and I can't mix the two sets.

    As it sits now, if it doesn't meet the IT rules it would end up in G Prepared.
    Stop.

    ITE and ITX have nothing to do with the prep regs in the Improved Touring rules set as published in the GCR (note neither class is listed). ITE and ITX (and in the northeast, ITEZ) are "catch all" classes designed to allow someone to compete in a car that meets the safety requirements of Improved Touring yet not the prep regs, except they must use DOT radial tires. As such, there's typically no wheel size requirements. on the down side, there's no limit to the prep a car may do, thus you're likely to get your ass handed to you by much faster equipment. But you can run.

    What SCCA division are you in? Look in that div's web pages for ITE/ITX/ITEZ regs.

    ...they are encouraging me to compete at a national event and I'm sure someone there will care, particularly if I beat them.
    You want to run a Majors event? You cannot in ITE, ITEZ, or ITX. You must run a car fully compliant to the GCR-published regs, which means you'll need ITC-compliant wheels.

    GA
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

  5. #5
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    CRX si would be ITB, not ITC. Does it have a carb or is it fuel injected? It might be an ITC car with a carb but with si bumpers and bodywork. (which isn't legal for ITC, but bring it to GLD and we wouldn't care).
    There are no corresponding solo classes in SP for ITX or ITE, so if it isn't a legal ITB/ITC car, you can't run SP (not legally anyway).
    If it is a legal ITB or ITC car then you can go to the matching SP class, which I think changed recently, so you'll have to look up the matching SP class, but ITC is limited to 6" wheels and ITB to 7", right?
    But you already know that it's not just wheels, you have to make everything IT legal to run SP.

    On the third hand, nationally you aren't going to be remotely competitive in SP, but you don't have to win for people to be unhappy if you aren't legal. If you finish 20th out of 24, there will be 4 people not too happy, depending on what isn't legal on your car.
    Jim Hardesty
    ITC 1986 Honda Civic Diablo Rojo Verde
    Never argue your tab at the end of the night. Remember, you're hammered and they’re sober.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by jumbojimbo View Post
    CRX si would be ITB, not ITC. Does it have a carb or is it fuel injected? It might be an ITC car with a carb but with si bumpers and bodywork. (which isn't legal for ITC, but bring it to GLD and we wouldn't care).
    There are no corresponding solo classes in SP for ITX or ITE, so if it isn't a legal ITB/ITC car, you can't run SP (not legally anyway).
    If it is a legal ITB or ITC car then you can go to the matching SP class, which I think changed recently, so you'll have to look up the matching SP class, but ITC is limited to 6" wheels and ITB to 7", right?
    But you already know that it's not just wheels, you have to make everything IT legal to run SP.

    On the third hand, nationally you aren't going to be remotely competitive in SP, but you don't have to win for people to be unhappy if you aren't legal. If you finish 20th out of 24, there will be 4 people not too happy, depending on what isn't legal on your car.

    ack! These rules make my head spin sometimes. Looking at the most recent GCR (September 2014), yes indeed the Si is in ITB. I guess I was looking at an older copy or something as I swear it said the second gen was in B and first in C. Either that or I just suck at reading rule books I see they split the Si and the non Si into separate classes. Ah well, glad that's straightened out. That's actually good news as I knew the wheels I have are lot legal in ITC as they are wider than 6".

    I was concerned about the wheels as I've been running a set of 13" Keizers with 225/45/13 Hankook z214s (which do not change my class for NASA). They stick out past the wheel opening but the actual part that contacts the ground does not. I want to say they are 7" wide honestly I'll need to measure them again. Old memory ain't what she used to be.

    The only other concerns I had were the camber plates (legal on McStrut cars, which I think the CRX qualifies as even though it uses torsion bars rather then coilovers?) and of course my door panels, which I just haven't gotten around to putting back on yet. Plus the fact it has very little in the way of interior (OK in IT), which actually caused some consternation on the part of the local region, as they initially put me in CSP then wanted to move the car to prepared because of the no interior, then had a heated discussion among themselves before throwing up their hands

    I've been PAXing favorably against some nationally competitive cars in other classes, but don't really have any competition in FSP around here. Curious to see how I would do. Probably not well but it sure would be fun trying. I had a blast at Blytheville last weekend.

  7. #7

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    wait a minute, looks like ITB is 6" according to the September rules. Hmmm :-/

  8. #8
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    yes ITB & C are 6", ITA is 7".
    dick patullo
    ner scca IT7 Rx7

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    yeah, my bad, i should have looked it up. ITB is 6" too. What SP class did they stick you in? in the old days we went to CSP based on the words "corresponding SP class" we thought that meant ITC went to CSP and ITB went to BSP. Didn't matter much because anyone in a real SP car was going to beat us. But now we understand we should be in FSP because that is where the SP 3G Hondas are.
    Jim Hardesty
    ITC 1986 Honda Civic Diablo Rojo Verde
    Never argue your tab at the end of the night. Remember, you're hammered and they’re sober.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by jumbojimbo View Post
    yeah, my bad, i should have looked it up. ITB is 6" too. What SP class did they stick you in? in the old days we went to CSP based on the words "corresponding SP class" we thought that meant ITC went to CSP and ITB went to BSP. Didn't matter much because anyone in a real SP car was going to beat us. But now we understand we should be in FSP because that is where the SP 3G Hondas are.
    The rules say "corresponding SP class", which I take to mean whichever SP class the CRX Si is in. Used to be CSP but is now FSP. The local region put me in CSP after a brief argument (then someone objected and wanted me in GP, then argued some more, and the CSP folks won out), then I put myself in FSP this year and so far no one has objected.

    I wish there were a way to set up the car to be competitive in both FSP and NXE, but alas.

    It might actually be easier at this point to use the SP rules. I'd probably be more competitive.

    Heck, aside from interior and tires, I think the car would go in STS
    Last edited by Andy69; 08-28-2014 at 02:09 PM.

  11. #11
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    Verify the door panel thing..
    We always ran the ITB car in FSP, untill I welded the diff.
    Mike Ogren , FWDracingguide.com, 352.4288.983 ,http://www.ogren-engineering.com/

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyinglizard View Post
    Verify the door panel thing..
    We always ran the ITB car in FSP, untill I welded the diff.
    I take this to mean it either needs door panels or an aluminum sheet

    Carpets, center consoles,
    floor mats, headliners, sun roof liner
    and frame, dome lights, grab handles, and their insulating,
    attaching or operating mechanisms may be removed. Sound
    deadening (melt sheets) and undercoating may be removed.
    Door interior trim panels may be replaced with 0.060” - 0.065”
    aluminum securely attached to the door. All other interior trim
    panels, except the dashboard, may be removed. Other than
    to provide for the installation of required safety equipment
    or other authorized modifications, no other driver/passenger
    compartment alterations or gutting are permitted

  13. #13
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    The 85 to 87 CRX SI was originally list in ITA with 13x7 or 14x7 wheels. This car and those wheels may date back to the early 90's when that was a good ITA car. I raced in ITA in a Toyota MR2 back then and Eric Strelnieks and Jeff Altenburg always killed us in Eric's 85 SI. When the 88 to 91 CRX SI got listed in ITA, the 85 to 87 models were not competitive but it took a long time to get them moved to ITB.
    Will Perry

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by itccrx36 View Post
    The 85 to 87 CRX SI was originally list in ITA with 13x7 or 14x7 wheels. This car and those wheels may date back to the early 90's when that was a good ITA car. I raced in ITA in a Toyota MR2 back then and Eric Strelnieks and Jeff Altenburg always killed us in Eric's 85 SI. When the 88 to 91 CRX SI got listed in ITA, the 85 to 87 models were not competitive but it took a long time to get them moved to ITB.
    I just put the wheels and tires on a few months ago. I compete primarily in NASA-X here in NXE and they cost me points but did not move me up a class (NASA is more competitive locally. We normally get 30-40 participants where SCCA is lucky to get 15 and I'm typically the only one in my class. Last time I was PAX FTD we had 8. ARSCCA is a lot more competitive but traveling to Little Rock for 10 weekends per isn't realistic for me). I do still have the 14x6 wheels I was using with the Nitto NT01s which I can easily use with the same size r-comps. It's only money, right?

    Funny you should mention the MR2. The PO of this car also raced a 1st gen MR2. Still has it but I don't think it will see a track again.

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