What is a "touring car?"

[Matt93SE]

Well the issue I see is that the STAC seems to be corking everything else down (SR20DET and turbos in general ) while opening the rotaries up.. So from the non-Miata driver's view, it sure looks like there's something going on..

....Why do you think I bought meself an RX7 to play in EP???

[Knestis]

... But the academic in me will ask this, Andy: How many PURPOSE-BUILT-TO-THE RULES "sports car" or "GT" STL cars are actively running in the ENTIRE United States...? More than the three I can think of?

K

Yo, Andy! How's the counting going...?

Seriously, though - I think it's germane to the conversation, exactly how many we're talking about when we say, "People built cars." How many do we risk disenfranchising by taking all of those sedan-vs-sports/GT car variables out of the formula for equalizing STL options...?

K

[Greg Amy]

Here's one of the latest ones. Can't wait to compete against that using a 60/40 weight split FWD Honda...even with a 400# advantage. Any bets?

10612670_10203994794022680_6507227362278728714_n_zps4d5196d5.jpg

[adamjabaay]

Here's one of the latest ones. Can't wait to compete against that using a 60/40 weight split FWD Honda...even with a 400# advantage. Any bets?

10612670_10203994794022680_6507227362278728714_n_zps4d5196d5.jpg

you totally got this. no worries (man i'm dumb. a 1.5 SOHC stl car. what was i thinking)

[Andy Bettencourt]

If you think STL-TC can actually survive, then freaking make it happen. Just don't close the playing field for 90% of the entries, make them STL-SC. Ya I know, a class for everyone...except the SC version has entries. Maybe the TC version will get flooded with ITA/ITB field fillers, who knows?

I hate the fact that a franken-NSX is being even mentioned as the pinnacle when nobody have even built one yet...and if the mere CONCEPT of it is scaring people off, then the rules makes for this class have really screwed the pooch.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Just got back from a little vacation...

I bet you there are just as many sports car based STL cars as there are touring-car based that were built just for this class. Maybe more. So I say 'more than half your class'.

Yo, Andy! How's the counting going...?

Seriously, though - I think it's germane to the conversation, exactly how many we're talking about when we say, "People built cars." How many do we risk disenfranchising by taking all of those sedan-vs-sports/GT car variables out of the formula for equalizing STL options...?

K

[Andy Bettencourt]

Is there ANY middle ground here for you guys? Can we split the class or does it HAVE to be 'kill the sports cars'? The solution Kirk has in process is the kill shot. Can both run in parallel and see if either can survive?

[Greg Amy]

Settle down, Beavis. Sports cars will not be eliminated from Super Touring. - GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

Settle down, Beavis. Sports cars will not be eliminated from Super Touring. - GA

Not saying they will but the goal is to try and make everyone as happy as can be...cripes you don't even think that you can compete...so how is that good? What is the best solution for everyone, including the 'Club'?

[Greg Amy]

Not saying they will but the goal is to try and make everyone as happy as can be...cripes you don't even think that you can compete...so how is that good? What is the best solution for everyone, including the 'Club'?

We'd certainly love to hear your thoughts on that. Read the next Fastrack, then select this link:

http://www.crbscca.com

[Andy Bettencourt]

Yo, Andy! How's the counting going...?

Seriously, though - I think it's germane to the conversation, exactly how many we're talking about when we say, "People built cars." How many do we risk disenfranchising by taking all of those sedan-vs-sports/GT car variables out of the formula for equalizing STL options...?

K

So I 'know' of 5 Miata...Ron M's car, Farbman, Drago and 2 new MX5's. I know of Greg's, the Civic and a CRX on IT.com. Figure at least 2 more exist. Assuming I know of EVERY SC-based car (which is impossible) you probably have at least equal builds? So what's your action from that data?

[Andy Bettencourt]

We'd certainly love to hear your thoughts on that. Read the next Fastrack, then select this link:

http://www.crbscca.com

I am asking the 'squeaky wheels' for a solution to their problem. Right now I don't see a problem I need to weigh in on. I am weighing in on a perceived problem based on cars that haven't been built and races that haven't been raced.

[Knestis]

So I 'know' of 5 Miata...Ron M's car, Farbman, Drago and 2 new MX5's. I know of Greg's, the Civic and a CRX on IT.com. Figure at least 2 more exist. Assuming I know of EVERY SC-based car (which is impossible) you probably have at least equal builds? So what's your action from that data?

So we run the risk of alienating less than a half dozen sports/gt STL cars if we take the lead out of them, uncork em and move them to stu, and get STL on a path to (a) what it was intended to be and (b) without huge systematic inequities baked into the class structure.

I hate the NSX idea too Andy but the option exists for someone to do it. You used to say that the ITAC had to write the rules presuming someone will go full tilt with whatever they allow. I always thought that was smart thinking.

K

[Ron Earp]

So I 'know' of 5 Miata...Ron M's car,

Ron Munnerlyn's car is a straight up ITS car only. Not sure if that is the same Ron M....

[Andy Bettencourt]

I guess my point is that you run the risk of alienating 'over half the people who actually built cars'. It's just as easy to eliminate the TC's. If there was 25 TC's and 5 SC's I'd say go for it but I think your 'issue' outweighs the 'ideal'.

Split them by class and run them in the same group.

- SC's will always have cars and they can reap the benefit of double-dip $$$
- TC's can grow without the fear of 'I left STL because Miata'
- The CRB can watch the relative performance of the two classes
- You can actually see what class is a good idea and eliminate/add as it's proven out
- You can expand the chassis years to really have fun without fear of hurting a layout

[Andy Bettencourt]

Ron Munnerlyn's car is a straight up ITS car only. Not sure if that is the same Ron M....

Meant Tyler R.

[Greg Amy]

Split them by class...

The BoD will not support new classes. See "Concorde Agreement" where there are distinct actions toward a significant reduction in the number of classes.

Don't waste effort talking about a new class; it's a non-starter and thus not a viable solution.

GA

[Knestis]

I guess my point is that you run the risk of alienating 'over half the people who actually built cars'. It's just as easy to eliminate the TC's. If there was 25 TC's and 5 SC's I'd say go for it but I think your 'issue' outweighs the 'ideal'.

Split them by class and run them in the same group.

- SC's will always have cars and they can reap the benefit of double-dip $$$
- TC's can grow without the fear of 'I left STL because Miata'
- The CRB can watch the relative performance of the two classes
- You can actually see what class is a good idea and eliminate/add as it's proven out
- You can expand the chassis years to really have fun without fear of hurting a layout

Of course new builds are going to skew toward sports cars. Anyone making a considered decision will go that way based on the built in advantages. The option of doing that encourages it and discourages building touring car. It's going to become a sports/gt class. Why would it NOT?

...and how many viable chassis will that route include? Is that the basis of a vital class? Does anyone care?

K

[Andy Bettencourt]

Well if I loved TC's and I felt the weight advantages we 'correct' then I would have no reason not to build one.

[Knestis]

If I had any confidence that this CRB would put the ballast on the sports/GT cars necessary to achieve any kind of parity, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

K