What is a "touring car?"

[Matt93SE]

the SR-240SX is a well known quantity, turbo restrictors and all. (and non-turbo version in STL). There's a few that ran well in Australian Improved Production class. Until they take the BecauseJDM handcuffs off it, it's not going to get built. I was **ALMOST** there until they stuck the -2mm restrictor on it and I figured out how much cheaper it is to run a rotary in Prod and go faster.

GT3 supposedly has the SR16 allowed as well, so there's another option depending on how light you think you can get the chassis.

[Greg Amy]

October Prelim Minutes: http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...%20Minutes.pdf

And...go*!

STL
1. #14472 (Kirk Knestis) Consider Differences Between Sports Cars and Touring Cars in STL

Instead of adding more weight to all rear-wheel drive cars, the CRB is considering a performance equalizer in STU and STL specifically for "sports cars", as opposed to standard "touring cars".

The definition of "sports cars" includes such features as:
1. Engine location (front, front-mid, rear-mid, rear),
2. Number of doors,
3. Suspension design,
4. Overall dimensions, and/or
5. Manufacturer-published interior volume.

Among the equalizers being considered are (for sports cars) are:

1. Smaller tire section width,
2. Additional weight(with or without reducing overall class base weights), and
3. Restrictors.

The CRB would like membership input on the general idea, as well as thoughts on definitions/characterization of a sports car and suggested performance equalizers. Please send your feedback through the SCCA letter system at crbscca.com.

* You can post here, but it just don't count unless you submit it to the CRB via crbscca.com...

[Ron Earp]

What does a 2L RWD car have to weigh in STL?

Looks like 2800 lbs?

[adamjabaay]

I think everything BUT 1.5 L and under should be heavier....

[Greg Amy]

I think everything BUT 1.5 L and under should be heavier....

Where's that thumbs-up icon...?

Dude, default weight for 2.0L is 2700#. Adders/subtractors from there...read the rulez, newb!!

[Chip42]

for Ron:
2.0L STL weights
RWD w/ SLA: 2849
RWD w/ F Struts: 2795
RWD w/ SLA and non USDM 2% penalty (i.e. BMW S14B20): 2905
RWD w/ F Strut and non USDM 2% penalty: 2850

FWD w/ SLA:2700
FWD w/ F Struts: 2633
FWD w/ SLA and non USDM 2% penalty: 2754
FWD w/ F Strut and non USDM 2% penalty: 2685

[JS154]

for Ron:
2.0L STL weights
RWD w/ SLA: 2849
RWD w/ F Struts: 2795
RWD w/ SLA and non USDM 2% penalty (i.e. BMW S14B20): 2905
RWD w/ F Strut and non USDM 2% penalty: 2850

FWD w/ SLA:2700
FWD w/ F Struts: 2633
FWD w/ SLA and non USDM 2% penalty: 2754
FWD w/ F Strut and non USDM 2% penalty: 2685

Honda K20 vs BMW S14B20: Honda wins on any track : 20+ more hp and almost 300# lighter.

[adamjabaay]

Where's that thumbs-up icon...?

Dude, default weight for 2.0L is 2700#. Adders/subtractors from there...read the rulez, newb!!

hahaha

[tom91ita]

I think everything BUT 1.5 L and under should be heavier....

Could a first gen crx get to weight with a 1.3?

[Knestis]

Before Ron replies - yes, it's a problem that the power/weight math tries to accommodate tweaked B-Spec cars.

K

[Greg Amy]

Could a first gen crx get to weight with a 1.3?

Please put one of those dune buggy flags on it, so we can see it coming as we pass it every other lap...

Before Ron replies - yes, it's a problem that the power/weight math tries to accommodate tweaked B-Spec cars.

We actually increased the weights across-the-board in STL (Dec 2011?) to attract/accommodate 1.5L cars...with B-Spec'rs as the targets.

[JS154]

We actually increased the weights across-the-board in STL (Dec 2011?) to attract/accommodate 1.5L cars...with B-Spec'rs as the targets.

I thought that was becuase of the expected increased base weight of all cars due to increased chassis rollover protection requirements, and the inability of cars to get down to current base weight.

[Greg Amy]

Honda K20 vs BMW S14B20: Honda wins on any track : 20+ more hp and almost 300# lighter.

Logic fale: my cohort has fallen into the trap!

I thought that was becuase of the expected increased base weight of all cars due to increased chassis rollover protection requirements, and the inability of cars to get down to current base weight.

Nope. As I recall the conversation, it was to give the 1.5L cars a chance to make minimum weight, with the idea that B-Spec cars may gradually migrate to STL once their usefulness is past.

I remember it vividly, as I had just finished spending a winter cutting out sh*t and replacing panels with plastic to lose 90# to get down exactly to the pound to my minimum 2340# weight with an empty fuel tank with me in it...and then we added 90# to my car...I now carry 100# of ballast in the back of the car to make 2430#...damn you Nemesis!!!

[adamjabaay]

Could a first gen crx get to weight with a 1.3?

seeing as the lemons 1g crx you and I drive, gutted to crap, weighs 1730, and we have glass , big battery, and bumper bars, and all steel body, I bet it could....the 1.3l 12v head sucks though, and I bet you couldn't get 125whp out of a max effort motor without insane porting, custom intake, and wild comrpression, all not legal...

while thinking about this dumb 1.5l d series I just built, I looked at all the SMALLER honda motors, and they all have almost nothing going for them.....AND parts are all custom.

I think my d15 will be competative, especially with the results I got from V1 , power-wise, and I still want to do .040/crank scraper/ coatings/ slightly bigger cam/not ancient injectors for v2.....(my cam is biggest regrind he could do, lift is only .390 or something though)


I think I can force another 5-10 whp out of v2, but intake manifold is the choker.

I think the only "smaller" Honda motors id even consider are the newer 1.4L d series sold overseas, as they have the same "better" heads we have here, but you'd get a non-usdm weight penalty

and I still need to get another 75+ lbs out !

[tom91ita]

Greg,

so no replacement for displacement? since your own car saw gains with the change of the 1.7 to 1.8L plus weight last year, have you thought much of going to 2.0? Or do you that's too heavy for the chassis/brakes/bearings, etc?

[Greg Amy]

Not to dissuade lower-displacement efforts -- I'm really looking forward to Adam's efforts -- but it just seems that in STL higher-horsepower wins. Equal horsepower will go to the better chassis (e.g., Miata, RX-8, etc). If you have both then you're invincible. Granted, it's Road America, but in the last two Runoffs I predicted the order of finish based solely on estimated horsepower, and I've been correct. I predict the podium for Laguna Seca will go to the highest-horsepower cars this year as well, with more nods to sports cars*.

I could install a K20 in my Integra - there's bolt-on kits for it - but it's still a lot of work, and a lot of expense. I don't mind the work but I'm pretty much done spending any more significant development time for STL; I just don't think I can afford to compete at the pointy end of that money tree. I'll continue doing some lower-end tuning and enjoy competing/driving instead.

GA

* Haven't given it detailed thought, but leading candidates are Jim Drago in the 1.8L Miata, Robert Schader in the 2L MX-5, Brian Laughlin in the 1.8L Miata, Oscar Jackson in the Miata (noticing a theme here...?) Leading FWD candidates are Brian Shanfield in the 2L Civic, Cliff Ira in the 1.8L Integra, and I see there's another CA-based driver in a 2L Civic; the latter is interesting simply because he probably has experience at the track.

There's a lot of unknown-to-me in there, folks that race on the West Coast; they'll have home field advantage. And you might see some strong 2L FWD cars at the pointy end, especially those in the FG Civics, which have the better suspension. But in the end, I predict the pointy end of the Runoffs will be sporty cars - let's just say it: Miatas - with some higher-powered FWD cars sprinkled in there for good luck.

Me? I'll take that 1.7 liters of pure Honda FWD fury and enjoy the HELL out of a track I've wanted to race for a long time. And beer. Lots of beer.

[Z3_GoCar]

Greg will get the chance to race a fast CRX at the runoffs, although when I talked to Paul at his first race with us he was running a 1.6 dual cam. But he was competitive with the best of the uncorked SM's from Rush.

The answer for me is 242hp. That's what I got, we'll see if that's competitive with the S-2k at 2550lbs (he added a sequential just because,) I think they're at that power but with 200lbs less Then there's the turbo version of the 2.5 that's got 270 at the wheel at 2550lbs. Yeah, I don't think the "Turbo" problem is fixed yet, they need to add another 200lbs, and take 200 off me.

[JS154]

What does a 2L RWD car have to weigh in STL?

Looks like 2800 lbs?

I think more like 2950?