What is a "touring car?"

[Z3_GoCar]

Nobody is forgetting. The issue is that you are reading that as gospel. Just because you aren't going to guarantee competitiveness, doesn't preclude you from trying.

All National classes try.

I don't think you will see line-item adjustments in STx but you will certainly see engine-specific adjustments and platform adjustments. Not a total CA scenario but certainly not CA-free.

Aka: The rules are what they are, until they're not.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Or: It's an SCCA National class...they WILL make Comp Adjustments.

And that is OK...unless the mission statement says otherwise.

[Knestis]

Submitted for consideration by the CRB:

Change 9.1.4.B.1. to read as follows (changes indicated by underline):

"1985 and newer cars with SAE passenger volume greater than 60 cubic feet (per the standards defined by SAE J1100 as adopted by the manufacturer), built specifically under these ST rules."

The proposed passenger volume requirement would clarify as a first principle of the category that Super Touring cars be passenger vehicles typically designed to safely seat four adults (i.e., to the exclusion of light trucks, sports, and Grand Touring [GT] cars). Note that this proposal should not be interpreted as affecting
9.1.4.B.3., the allowance that alternate categories/classes of cars may compete in their own specification.

Respectfully submitted,
Kirk Knestis
103210

[Andy Bettencourt]

Where is the database or the gold standard resource on researching passenger volume?

Where did you come up with 60 cu/ft?

Are you stating a problem in your request and an associated solution or just a simple contraction of eligible cars? You don't really state the goal your request aims at. (We know it but will the CRB?)

[Knestis]

60 cf is unequivocally less than is required for a four seat car, not so close to currently eligible models that its likely to arbitrarily exclude new options. Passenger volume is an sae standard dimension published by the manufacturers. We don't have "gold standard data" for any of the other info we need for rules making. Why apply that expectation now?

[Andy Bettencourt]

60 cf is unequivocally less than is required for a four seat car, not so close to currently eligible models that its likely to arbitrarily exclude new options. Passenger volume is an sae standard dimension published by the manufacturers. We don't have "gold standard data" for any of the other info we need for rules making. Why apply that expectation now?

What I mean is where do you find specs for interior volume? I tried today for about 10 min to find the spec for a Porsche 944.

[Matt93SE]

Where is the database or the gold standard resource on researching passenger volume?

Where did you come up with 60 cu/ft?

I'm going to bet that a Miata has 59 cu ft of interior volume..

Manufacturers typically publish this information with their list of new car specs. you can find interior volumes on just about any car review site- edmunds, motor trend, car mfr brochure or website, etc. As there is a standard test method to calculate this number, I would rely on any of those sites to provide usable data (Mfr's owner or service manual data first).

As a side note, the standard measurements for interior volumes to classify cars include trunk volume. Reference: http://books.google.com/books?id=F3Q...page&q&f=false

[Knestis]

No. I specified PASSENGER VOLUME. It means a particular measurement, per SAE standard cited.

K

[Matt93SE]

No. I specified PASSENGER VOLUME. It means a particular measurement, per SAE standard cited.

K

The EPA standard is widely published with car specs. Is the SAE standard measurement as widely published and as easy to find?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just asking a question. It seemed a lot easier to find interior volume published than passenger volume.

[Z3_GoCar]

I'm going to bet that a Miata has 59 cu ft of interior volume..

I'd argue, rather successfully I might add, that the passenger volume of a car without a roof is essentially infinite. With Special Me specifically called out as being included in both STL and STU along with all IT cars... this will probably go in the not recommended list.