What is a "touring car?"

[Andy Bettencourt]

No, that's not the solution. The solution is to work with what you have created. People have real money into cars based on rules that have been presented for more than enough time to fix any wayward intent.

The rotards aren't the perceived issue. The 'non touring cars' are. Split the classes and see what happens if you have to.

'We never wanted RWD'
'We never wanted rotories'

Well we included them. People built cars. People are running the class in huge numbers.

Send in a letter.

www.crbscca.com

[Greg Amy]

Nope, it's now unofficially - and inevitably - "Yet Another Miata Class".

Us retarded kids will just go find another sandbox to play in. - GA

[Knestis]

Nope, it's now unofficially - and inevitably - "Yet Another Miata Class".

Us retarded kids will just go find another sandbox to play in. - GA

QFT

I've gone from being one of the biggest proponents of IT in the nation; to being an IT leper; to being massively excited about ST; to the sorry realization that unless I want to build some whack-job swapped NSX or some shit, I'm destined to be a field filler in that class.

I don't think I'm an idiot about the racing biz, I feel like three decades plus of commitment to the Club probably SHOULD matter, but I find myself now taking substantive steps to go run NASA. Not that my dollars are as important as those of, say, a CRB member who's built a car to take advantage of a loophole that the STAC couldn't quite keep closed or anything...

But the academic in me will ask this, Andy: How many PURPOSE-BUILT-TO-THE RULES "sports car" or "GT" STL cars are actively running in the ENTIRE United States...? More than the three I can think of?

K

[Greg Amy]

QFT

I've gone from being one of the biggest proponents of IT in the nation; to being an IT leper; to being massively excited about ST; to the sorry realization that unless I want to build some whack-job swapped NSX or some shit, I'm destined to be a field filler in that class.

I don't think I'm an idiot about the racing biz, I feel like three decades plus of commitment to the Club probably SHOULD matter, but I find myself now taking substantive steps to go run NASA.

Ditto.

I left ITA to go to ITS....because Miata.

I left ITS to go to STL...because Miata (and RX-7).

I'm now looking to leave STL and go to Somewhere I'm Not Yet Prepared to Declare (though vintage beckons long-term)...because Miata (and rotary engine).

They're excellent little cars. We, car guys, are all better for them. But when the answer I get is "so, why don't you build a Miata?" then, well, that tells me no one is listening to the question.



GA

[Matt93SE]

Ditto.

I left ITA to go to ITS....because Miata.

I left ITS to go to STL...because Miata (and RX-7).

I'm now looking to leave STL and go to Somewhere I'm Not Yet Prepared to Declare (though vintage beckons long-term)...because Miata (and rotary engine).

They're excellent little cars. We, car guys, are all better for them. But when the answer I get is "so, why don't you build a Miata?" then, well, that tells me no one is listening to the question.



GA

So work on the rules such that "other than a Miata" is actually competitive?

[Knestis]

So work on the rules such that "other than a Miata" is actually competitive?

...he says to the guy on the inside who can theoretically influence "the rules."

Big hint, guys - when someone on an ad hoc committee decides it's not worth tilting at a windmill, that particular windmill has won.

K

[Matt93SE]

So who's the problem so we can vote 'em out?!

[Knestis]

... But the academic in me will ask this, Andy: How many PURPOSE-BUILT-TO-THE RULES "sports car" or "GT" STL cars are actively running in the ENTIRE United States...? More than the three I can think of?

K

Yo, Andy! How's the counting going...?

Seriously, though - I think it's germane to the conversation, exactly how many we're talking about when we say, "People built cars." How many do we risk disenfranchising by taking all of those sedan-vs-sports/GT car variables out of the formula for equalizing STL options...?

K

[Greg Amy]

Here's one of the latest ones. Can't wait to compete against that using a 60/40 weight split FWD Honda...even with a 400# advantage. Any bets?

10612670_10203994794022680_6507227362278728714_n_zps4d5196d5.jpg

[adamjabaay]

Here's one of the latest ones. Can't wait to compete against that using a 60/40 weight split FWD Honda...even with a 400# advantage. Any bets?

10612670_10203994794022680_6507227362278728714_n_zps4d5196d5.jpg

you totally got this. no worries (man i'm dumb. a 1.5 SOHC stl car. what was i thinking)

[Andy Bettencourt]

Just got back from a little vacation...

I bet you there are just as many sports car based STL cars as there are touring-car based that were built just for this class. Maybe more. So I say 'more than half your class'.

Yo, Andy! How's the counting going...?

Seriously, though - I think it's germane to the conversation, exactly how many we're talking about when we say, "People built cars." How many do we risk disenfranchising by taking all of those sedan-vs-sports/GT car variables out of the formula for equalizing STL options...?

K

[Andy Bettencourt]

Is there ANY middle ground here for you guys? Can we split the class or does it HAVE to be 'kill the sports cars'? The solution Kirk has in process is the kill shot. Can both run in parallel and see if either can survive?

[Greg Amy]

Settle down, Beavis. Sports cars will not be eliminated from Super Touring. - GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

Yo, Andy! How's the counting going...?

Seriously, though - I think it's germane to the conversation, exactly how many we're talking about when we say, "People built cars." How many do we risk disenfranchising by taking all of those sedan-vs-sports/GT car variables out of the formula for equalizing STL options...?

K

So I 'know' of 5 Miata...Ron M's car, Farbman, Drago and 2 new MX5's. I know of Greg's, the Civic and a CRX on IT.com. Figure at least 2 more exist. Assuming I know of EVERY SC-based car (which is impossible) you probably have at least equal builds? So what's your action from that data?

[Knestis]

So I 'know' of 5 Miata...Ron M's car, Farbman, Drago and 2 new MX5's. I know of Greg's, the Civic and a CRX on IT.com. Figure at least 2 more exist. Assuming I know of EVERY SC-based car (which is impossible) you probably have at least equal builds? So what's your action from that data?

So we run the risk of alienating less than a half dozen sports/gt STL cars if we take the lead out of them, uncork em and move them to stu, and get STL on a path to (a) what it was intended to be and (b) without huge systematic inequities baked into the class structure.

I hate the NSX idea too Andy but the option exists for someone to do it. You used to say that the ITAC had to write the rules presuming someone will go full tilt with whatever they allow. I always thought that was smart thinking.

K

[Andy Bettencourt]

I guess my point is that you run the risk of alienating 'over half the people who actually built cars'. It's just as easy to eliminate the TC's. If there was 25 TC's and 5 SC's I'd say go for it but I think your 'issue' outweighs the 'ideal'.

Split them by class and run them in the same group.

- SC's will always have cars and they can reap the benefit of double-dip $$$
- TC's can grow without the fear of 'I left STL because Miata'
- The CRB can watch the relative performance of the two classes
- You can actually see what class is a good idea and eliminate/add as it's proven out
- You can expand the chassis years to really have fun without fear of hurting a layout

[Ron Earp]

So I 'know' of 5 Miata...Ron M's car,

Ron Munnerlyn's car is a straight up ITS car only. Not sure if that is the same Ron M....

[Andy Bettencourt]

Ron Munnerlyn's car is a straight up ITS car only. Not sure if that is the same Ron M....

Meant Tyler R.