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Thread: "The Confines of the Engine Compartment"

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knestis View Post
    Attachment 3735

    Audi 4000 5+5, just for giggles...

    I miss that car.

    K

    EDIT - Whoops. Thats a 4000Q but the radiator layout is the same; ditto for the ITB Coupe.
    Turd, meet punch bowl.
    Steve Linn | Fins Up Racing | #6 ITA Sentra SE-R | www.indyscca.org

  2. #42
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    Sploosh!

  3. #43
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    Ha !! Those 5+5s are rare ! Nothing like having the radiator off to the side. The top cover of the radiator makes for a nice tool tray and beverage holder .
    John VanDenburgh

    VanDenburgh Motorsports
    ITB Audi Coupe GT

  4. #44
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    To further muddy the waters...

    I've read this thread closely as I had a friendly discussion this past weekend with one of our scrutineers about the legality of the intake I've run for years:

    IMG_20140706_090514.jpg IMG_20140706_090457.jpg

    It's a modified Racing Beat intake; the latter came with a hole in the back of the "box" for a more stock-like intake routing, which I fiberglassed closed and ran a straight pipe over from the throttle body, through the MAF and into the side of the box.

    Inarguably, the intake & intake box are located within the confines of the engine compartment, and aren't a ram air system nor cowl induction. In my case the point of contention is what "source" means. The induction box (mostly) seals the intake filter off from the engine compartment so it draws air from the wheel well. So you could say it's drawing air from outside the engine compartment... but as someone here pointed out earlier, all air comes from outside the engine compartment one way or another.

    It would be nice to get some kind of "official" (such as it is) word on this; I haven't contacted the ITAC in so long that I don't even remember how...
    Last edited by vtluu; 07-08-2014 at 11:23 AM.
    Viet-Tam Luu (a.k.a. "Tam")
    Director, SCCA San Francisco Region
    2011 SFR-SCCA ITS Champion
    #12 ITS (1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata)
    #12 STU (2003 Mitsubishi Evo 8)

  5. #45
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    It's a gray area that, like splitters, we've all chosen to ignore. IMO, as long as all the bits are physically located within the "confines of the engine compartment", and you're not doing cowl induction or ram air, then it's compliant to the current letter of the regs, despite having been sealed off from the rest of the engine compartment. Its compliance to the spirit of the regs in current context IMO is also OK. But it would be extremely hard to interpret it to the original context of the regs because, as with splitters, they didn't exist back then at our level of competition.

    There's no longer any "official" method of getting rules interpretation. You can send a request to the ITAC for clarification (http://crbscca.com) but that clarification is really non-official and will only last through the current year and/or ITAC; all it does is indicate to you how the CRB/ITAC would rule should they be asked during a protest/appeal. The other way is to have someone protest you ($25 and you'll probably get that back) and run it through protest/appeals.

    GA
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

  6. #46
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    And we really don't offer clarifications anymore (we've been asked not to).

    My personal opinion is that this intake is legal as it is within the confines of the engine bay BUT the IT Miatas and RX7s I've seen have a habit of having the hood bend up slightly in that area to effectively pressurize the area around the filter, which is even more effective here due to the well designed and essentially sealed box. If the hood is bent up, I could see this conceivably being called "ram air."
    NC Region
    1980 ITS Triumph TR8

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Amy View Post
    It's a gray area that, like splitters, we've all chosen to ignore. IMO, as long as all the bits are physically located within the "confines of the engine compartment", and you're not doing cowl induction or ram air, then it's compliant to the current letter of the regs, despite having been sealed off from the rest of the engine compartment. Its compliance to the spirit of the regs in current context IMO is also OK. But it would be extremely hard to interpret it to the original context of the regs because, as with splitters, they didn't exist back then at our level of competition.


    GA
    I would only add one thing...like exhaust heat shields and custom intake shrouding, in order to be compliant under the 'intake is free' or 'exhaust is free', these designs must be attached to said free item.

    So that Miata intake shroud above looks legal provided it's actually attached to the intake tubing in some way.
    Andy Bettencourt
    New England Region 188967

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffYoung View Post
    And we really don't offer clarifications anymore (we've been asked not to).

    My personal opinion is that this intake is legal as it is within the confines of the engine bay BUT the IT Miatas and RX7s I've seen have a habit of having the hood bend up slightly in that area to effectively pressurize the area around the filter, which is even more effective here due to the well designed and essentially sealed box. If the hood is bent up, I could see this conceivably being called "ram air."
    Which would put doing that illegal from two angles. 'Modifying' your body work is illegal in this context and even if it was legal it wouldn't be allowed here since it facilitates a specifically disallowed modification.
    Andy Bettencourt
    New England Region 188967

  9. #49
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    Thanks Greg, Jeff, Andy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt View Post
    So that Miata intake shroud above looks legal provided it's actually attached to the intake tubing in some way.
    Is duct tape considered a legal method of attachment?
    Viet-Tam Luu (a.k.a. "Tam")
    Director, SCCA San Francisco Region
    2011 SFR-SCCA ITS Champion
    #12 ITS (1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata)
    #12 STU (2003 Mitsubishi Evo 8)

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by vtluu View Post
    Is duct tape considered a legal method of attachment?
    Yup. In fact...when I did a heat shroud on my ITA NX2000 many moons ago, Andy was looking under the hood. He made a comment regarding the shield being a separate part from my intake. I reached over, grabbed a roll of duct tape, and connected them together.

    The look on his face was priceless...
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

  11. #51
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    Fasteners are free!!
    Chuck Baader
    White EP BMW M-Techniq
    I may grow older, but I refuse to grow up!

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Amy View Post
    Yup. In fact...when I did a heat shroud on my ITA NX2000 many moons ago, Andy was looking under the hood. He made a comment regarding the shield being a separate part from my intake. I reached over, grabbed a roll of duct tape, and connected them together.

    The look on his face was priceless...
    And in one move, it was legal!
    Andy Bettencourt
    New England Region 188967

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip42 View Post
    cool, so my whole car is engine compartment?
    <--- drives an MR2
    I would consider the engine compartment to be forward of the firewall, aft of the radiator core support, and surrounded by the inner fender wells and hood.

  14. #54
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    Out of context that quote makes me look like I was being serious...

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip42 View Post
    Out of context that quote makes me look like I was being serious...
    No worries, Chip; we rarely take you serious anyway...

    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

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