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Thread: "The Confines of the Engine Compartment"

  1. #21
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    We tried one to baseline from a HP and an air-intake temp perspective. We built a better one by V.3 and V.4. (by my definition - torque curve)

    As to the plastic over in front of the radiator, I kept mine. It actually keeps better air into the radiator. Back in the day, the 1.6 SM guys were adding the 1.8 piece IIRC to improve cooling. It might be specifically allowed in SM.
    Andy Bettencourt
    New England Region 188967

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawtonglenn View Post
    I don't mean to complicate the issue, but it reminds me of the stock airbox/ramair setup of the S5 RX7.
    It seems to me that if none of the fast RX7 guys utilize these stock parts, it probably isn't worthwhile.
    What I do know is that we toyed with it, and we determined that its volume flow restriction would likely
    outweigh any possible (and doubtful) pressurized advantage

    Attachment 3731

    Go back and look again, you missed something.
    Steve Eckerich
    ITS 18 Speedsource RX7
    ITR RX8 (under construction)

  3. #23
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    The rules are pretty clear about no 'ram-air' and this would put the air intake into an area of higher pressure than it would normally have in it's stock location. You have to remove the plastic trim for it to work.

    Two strikes, you're out.

  4. #24
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    Agreed. No plastic piece and no air intake there? Cool (IMO). No plastic piece AND intake there? Too far.

    Now I need to go find one of those plastic pieces. Agree with Andy on using it to keep temps down.
    Dave Gran
    Real Roads, Real Car Guys Real World Road Tests
    Go Ahead - Take the Wheel's Free Guide to Racing

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by seckerich View Post
    Go back and look again, you missed something.
    ok Steve ... we still have the parts ... six pack of lager for some hints?

    Glenn Lawton
    GSMmotorsports
    #14 ITS RX7
    NARRC ITS Champion 2012
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  6. #26
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    PM me and I will send you a picture.
    Steve Eckerich
    ITS 18 Speedsource RX7
    ITR RX8 (under construction)

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt View Post

    As to the plastic over in front of the radiator, I kept mine. It actually keeps better air into the radiator. Back in the day, the 1.6 SM guys were adding the 1.8 piece IIRC to improve cooling. It might be specifically allowed in SM.
    It is allowed for the 1.6 in both SM and SSM, and makes a big difference in cooling. I've run my car back to back with and without and the differences on an 80 degree day were immediate.
    Rob Myles
    Hero To The Momentum Challenged
    SSM #53
    Pandora's Garage / VISA

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawtonglenn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt View Post
    I have never considered that intake to be legal for an ITA Miata. I believe, like RP, that anything flush or encroaching on the plane of the radiator sources from 'outside' the bay. That's oversimplified for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by chuck baader View Post
    I have always considered the engine compartment as a place where the engine resides. Clearly, the engine does not reside in front of the radiator, therefore, the engine compartment ends with the rear of the radiator. Non compliant.
    +1

    Just to debate the definition of the Engine Bay/Compartment .

    Where would the radiator be located, or described as being located, if it's not the considered the engine compartment ? I would think anywhere under the hood, and aft of the grill , would be considered as engine bay . Plus, I believe in the definition that Greg supplied, makes no reference to for or aft of the radiator being a boundary for the engine compartment.

    -John
    Last edited by Rabbit05; 06-13-2014 at 07:24 AM.
    John VanDenburgh

    VanDenburgh Motorsports
    ITB Audi Coupe GT

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit05 View Post
    Just to debate the definition of the Engine Bay/Compartment .

    Where would the radiator be located, or described as being located, if it's not the considered the engine compartment ? I would think anywhere under the hood, and aft of the grill , would be considered as engine bay . Plus, I believe in the definition that Greg supplied, makes no reference to for or aft of the radiator being a boundary for the engine compartment.

    -John
    cool, so my whole car is engine compartment?
    <--- drives an MR2
    TrackSpeed

  10. #30
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    yes ...yes it is... HA I totally forgot about the mid/rear engine cars...!

    You must now drive backwards....
    Last edited by Rabbit05; 06-13-2014 at 08:35 AM.
    John VanDenburgh

    VanDenburgh Motorsports
    ITB Audi Coupe GT

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckerboy View Post
    It is allowed for the 1.6 in both SM and SSM, and makes a big difference in cooling. I've run my car back to back with and without and the differences on an 80 degree day were immediate.
    Agreed, these do matter for cooling. Dave, look around online, some of the Miata aftermarket places have the factory pieces availabe (gomiata I think?). I just put an NRG aluminum panel on my SU car becauase bling matters... (and it was the same price as the factory piece, and I don't have rules to live by)
    Marcus
    miller-motorsports.com - Its always an Adventure (and woefully outdated)
    1.6 ITE/SPU/ST2 Turbo Miata (in pieces... err progress)

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit05 View Post
    ...definition that Greg supplied, makes no reference to for or aft of the radiator being a boundary for the engine compartment.

    -John
    Damned good thing, particularly if you're talking about cars like the Fiero or the soon-to-be-classified-I'm-sure Austin America.
    Gary Learned
    MiDiv
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  13. #33
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    Hi guys,

    Just responding to the question of "Ram Air", as it was discussed in the forum. Back in the day, I was protested for this item in ITB. I then referred to the GCR Technical Glossary, where "Ram Air" is defined (fancy that). In 2011, the definition was: "A type of induction system in which the incoming air is obtained from an extension into the airstream outside the bodywork." Bold is mine.

    No one has mentioned a reference to the glossary, so I thought I'd bring it up. If this definition still exists, then the discussion could take another turn?

    Good racing,

    Bill

    Good racing.
    Bill Frieder
    MGP Racing
    Buffalo, New York

  14. #34
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    No real impact I think Bill.

    THe issue here is what is "inside the engine compartment" since our rules allow the pickup of air there, or in the stock location.

    To me, the radiator has to be the forward definition of the engine compartment. Otherwise, you could use the void between the grill and the radiator on pretty much any car to make an effective and never intended cold air intake.

    Based on that, he Jackson intake is not legal as it extends past the rear of the radiator. Cut it off there and probably legal.
    NC Region
    1980 ITS Triumph TR8

  15. #35
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    I agree with you, with the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffYoung View Post
    ...radiator has to be the forward definition of the engine compartment. Otherwise, you could use the void between the grill and the radiator on pretty much any car to make an effective and never intended cold air intake.
    This is supported philosophically, in that the regs do not allow you to make a shorty radiator and leave a hole next to it for air intake. It would be nice, howver, for that to be explicitly clarified in the regs (easy to supplement the "engine compartment" definition within the ITCS.)

    Based on that, he Jackson intake is not legal as it extends past the rear of the radiator. Cut it off there and probably legal.
    I agree that the intake portion of it should be behind the plane of the radiator. However, there is no restriction to the mounting portion of it needing to be behind that, as long as air is not taken in from there.

    GA
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

  16. #36
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    1987-audi-4000q-5.jpg

    Audi 4000 5+5, just for giggles...

    I miss that car.

    K

    EDIT - Whoops. Thats a 4000Q but the radiator layout is the same; ditto for the ITB Coupe.
    Last edited by Knestis; 06-18-2014 at 11:07 AM.

  17. #37
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    Agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Amy View Post
    I agree with you, with the following:


    This is supported philosophically, in that the regs do not allow you to make a shorty radiator and leave a hole next to it for air intake. It would be nice, howver, for that to be explicitly clarified in the regs (easy to supplement the "engine compartment" definition within the ITCS.)



    I agree that the intake portion of it should be behind the plane of the radiator. However, there is no restriction to the mounting portion of it needing to be behind that, as long as air is not taken in from there.

    GA
    NC Region
    1980 ITS Triumph TR8

  18. #38
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    I dislike the radiator being considered a standard part of the outline of the engine compartments due to mid engined cars and oddballs like the 5cyl audis, not to mention 1/2 width radiators found on many hondas and a few other cars.

    in the case of the miata - yeah, a fine, common sensical boundary, but I think we should be clear with ourselves that it is not a valid definition in MANY cases.
    TrackSpeed

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip42 View Post
    I dislike the radiator being considered a standard part of the outline of the engine compartments due to mid engined cars and oddballs like the 5cyl audis, not to mention 1/2 width radiators found on many hondas and a few other cars.

    in the case of the miata - yeah, a fine, common sensical boundary, but I think we should be clear with ourselves that it is not a valid definition in MANY cases.
    This is a pretty easy "know it when you see it" thing though. Something like "within the confines of the engine compartment, which is typically bounded by the radiator (front), hood (top), inner fenders (sides) and subframe or other engine mounting points (lower)" -- something like that.
    NC Region
    1980 ITS Triumph TR8

  20. #40
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    definition comes from the technical glossary in the GCR and we just use the term and the allowances for intake ducting in the ITCS. I doubt they will rewrite the definition to suit tin tops because wings and things. better just to, as you say, know it when you see it.
    TrackSpeed

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