Memorial Day NHMS 2014

[dickita15]

not sure I understand Glenn, you would not be alone, you would be with ITR and ITS cars. the reason I think that makes sense is there are so few Big Bore cars. also if I was making the call (and I am not) I would want to make one simple move rather that reshuffle cars to different places.

[Greg Amy]

The limit after waiver is ???

10%...?

[dtanthon]

10%...?

6.4.1 General

A. 1 car in a class shall constitute a class. A car may not compete in
more than one race class in the same race group.

B. Number of Cars allowed on Course

A maximum of 25 cars per mile may be on the course or started
simultaneously in any type of session.

The Division’s Executive Steward may increase or decrease the 25
car limitation for any or all race groups.

[Dano77]

Did anyone else notice the Fiat 500 Abarth registered for ITE? That is the perfect car for ITEZ as he is just gonna get run over in ITE.

[dickita15]

Hi Dick ... what I meant by alone was a few slow cars (us) in a field of fast cars (big bore) ... my suggestion was also one simple move (ITB+T4) > Group 6

i understand and it is not my decision but group 7, big bore only has 14 cars and group 6 has 25 and they are friggin Miatas

[RSTPerformance]

Please don't consider this a "threat", just a statement of fact that should be considered

I agree it seems to make the most sense. However, Bob Blake and I have no interest in running big bore by ourselves,
and so if ITS is moved to Group 7, neither of us will double dip, and we will both run STL in Group 4.... Others in the
same situation may or may not do the same thing, you will have to ask them.

We are really really looking forward to racing the whole ITA IT7 big race, and hope that it gets split out differently.
My vote? ... Move ITB (7) and T4 (2) to SM and T3 in Group 6 (26 + 7 + 2 = 35)

.

glenn and Bob are probably not alone... Having ITS/ITR run in big bore has proven to be a failure at Summit (?) from what I remember. I do not think that grouping is attractive to those competitors. Like it or not, there is some enjoyment of running the fastest car in a race group. That is an attraction to those classes and if you change that it WILL reduce car counts in that class. You might think that is lame but it is the truth, and I think it is reasonable. I have run for years in ITB and while fun, it is a blast when I have run in ITR and Lemons Races and been able to pass people at will. I know for me when my car gets done I would probably try my best not to run with big bore...

next issue... Nobody seems to want to run with Miatas, but guess whait, this class is! They have just changed the class on the side of the car to ITA! We should all respect who we are racing with no matter the class. Fix the issue with expecting the stewards to do a split start like it should be (IMO).

I really hope with probable no shows that they wait until after registration confirmation at track or qualifying to split it, if needed. Otherwise in a perfect world, who WANTS to be in another group?


Raymond "I don't mind being with SM as long as it is a split start. Wish I was racing with my brother but I can't get everything I want!" Blethen

PS: how awesome is it that we are debating this for a race at NHMS!!!!!

[ner88]

"I'm all for moving classes, just not mine!"

[Greg Amy]

"I'm all for moving classes, just not mine!"

Yup, me too!

Add to that:

"Hey, I like everyone to be in the same group! But can we split them all out into little starting sub-groups?"

Split starts/grids suck. If you don't like being mixed in with those other cars, drive faster!

GA, still not whining about being with all the Miatas....yet.

[JLawton]

OK, I'm looking at the weather, I'm old and am pussying out........... Anyone need a garage mate?

(truth is, I have someone who's coming for their first race weekend and want to make it as pleasant as possible...... )

[RSTPerformance]

Yup, me too!

Add to that:

"Hey, I like everyone to be in the same group! But can we split them all out into little starting sub-groups?"

Split starts/grids suck. If you don't like being mixed in with those other cars, drive faster!

GA, still not whining about being with all the Miatas....yet.

why do they suck? Mixed racing is great, especially when there is a speed difference. Reality is though ITB/SM are way to close in speeds after you get past the first 5 or so SM's. no matter how fast I drive the Audi I will be fighting with someone who should be faster and... Never-mind. If you don't get it, you haven't been in my shoes and you won't understand. Split start when racing a "spec" class makes it far more enjoyable for all, especially when the fast class is the spec class.

Raymond "I left ProIT in ITB simply because they didn't split the start with SM... It's not fun for me" Blethen

[Greg Amy]

why do they suck? Mixed racing is great, especially when there is a speed difference. Reality is though ITB/SM are way to close in speeds after you get past the first 5 or so SM's.

"Mixed racing is great"...as long as I don't have to deal with any other cars outside my class.

"ITB/SM are way to close in speeds after you get past the first 5 or so SM's" Reality check: ALL "xxx" classes are close in speed once you get past the first five or so "YYY" cars. That's the nature of mixed-class amateur racing! The comparative speeds are FAR more dependent on the nuts behind the wheel, which tend to reach a certain level of equilibrium, regardless of what's attached to the other end of that steering column. If you don't like that, then I respectfully suggest you find a race group where all the cars are in the same class. Then you can whine about their relative level of skills or prep level instead...

"I left ProIT in ITB simply because they didn't split the start with SM". You're no longer racing with SM. And yet you're still not happy. So what's it gonna take...? Your own discrete race group? No, wait, you guys want to be the fastest cars on the track, regardless of classes in the group. Hey, I won ITB!

Less whining, more racing. Bullshit stops when the green flag drops.

GA, who's laughing quite literally out loud at that "well, you've never been in **MY** shoes" comment, especially given he just finished the NJMP 13 hour race driving The. Slowest. Car. On. The. Track...noting he finished roughly halfway up the roster in that slow-ass car within that awesome "fast group" (a result which, I suggest, is FAR more rewarding than finishing near - but not quite "at" - the top in a fast car)...and has many god-knows-how-many-enduro-hours behind the wheel of ITB cars - hey, wait a sec, isn't that the class you used to race in...? Not to mention - but he will - three decades racing in SSC, SSB, SSA, ITC, ITB, ITA, ITS, STL (did I miss any...?), none of which, as far as he can remember, run in race groups consisting only of their class...dunno, maybe the situations are, well, you know, different...?

Edited to add appropriate smilies, before this s**t gets too serious. Green Flag > Bullshit. Checkered Flag: even better.

[StephenB]

Well, I can't wait to get out on track this weekend regardless of my group! Let's race!!!! I will be supporting and cheering for at least one student this weekend, anyone else know someone attending the school? How many new drivers do we have?

Oh and Jeff... bring the car, it's just a "chance" of showers... :/

Stephen

[RSTPerformance]

Greg- you have plenty of experience... Not disagreeing with you on that. I am not sure it is the same but I am not going to argue that, it's not worth my time. Your enjoyment of racing is probably different than mine, nothing wrong with that.

I like mixed racing, always have, especially when you have small class sizes. It helps keep it so you can "play" with someone. that could be one of the best parts about SCCA racing considering the huge number of classes offered. I also have in the past enjoyed racing with SM, some of my best races! Frankly the only places I didn't enjoy it was in ProIT where there were big fields and a split start would actually IMO make it more fun for the mixed IT classes to run together and spec SM class to run together... Well until a FCY

With a 23 car SM field and 7 car ITB field I think it would be more fun if it was a split start, that is, if we got grouped with them (Other than IT7 - who have other obligations this weekend preventing a move, seems to make the most sense if a seperation is needed).

Raymond "see you at the track" Blethen

[RSTPerformance]

"Mixed racing is great"...as long as I don't have to deal with any other cars outside my class.

Edited to add appropriate smilies, before this s**t gets too serious. Green Flag > Bullshit. Checkered Flag: even better.

Please don't put words in my mouth... That elevates this s**t beyond people having different opinions and makes it so it gets to serious. I am not interested in a debate, just providing my input.

jeff L- just watched weather, rain Friday but the weekend looks great, no rain!

Raymond

[Ed Funk]

(truth is, I have someone who's coming for their first race weekend and want to make it as pleasant as possible...... )[/QUOTE]

Another new girlfriend?!?

[ner88]

At least in SM you know what to expect.
and....we don't need other classes as field fillers!
see you at the track :-)

[gran racing]

Like it or not, there is some enjoyment of running the fastest car in a race group.

If ITR / ITS were moved, other people get that enjoyment.

Just enjoying the read. lol

[Andy Bettencourt]

What do people consider an acceptable difference in lap times in the name of safety?

[MMiskoe]

What do people consider an acceptable difference in lap times in the name of safety?

Interesting question, not sure if lap time is the deciding factor. It is more on the lines of if the cars move in similar fashions - straight line speed vrs apex speeds and if the other drivers get all pissy about mix class racing and will either race you cleanly or give you room to get by.

First wheel to wheel race I ever did I got passed by a Trans-am/GT1 car on the front straight at Bridgehampton. Closing speed was 50mph+. But we all played well together and no issues. OTOH, I've been yelled at by other class drivers and slammed on this forum because I didn't give up my fight for position to allow someone else to get through with lap times w/in a second of each other.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Testing, Qual, results...those of us wishing we were there need updates!!! Post here. Thanks!!!