April 2014 Fastrack

[Chip42]

Since it is no different in STL prep, you would be a fool to claim a B16A vs. An A2 or 3. Stamping on the block is irrelevant So long as the part matches USDM specs.

Or am I missing something?

[Greg Amy]

Since it is no different in STL prep, you would be a fool to claim a B16A vs. An A2 or 3. Stamping on the block is irrelevant So long as the part matches USDM specs.

I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of your premise.

just curious why someone asked a question when we already had an answer.

Guess they never talked to Chip...

[tom91ita]

the frustrating part is if I submit something to get this straightened out and say "but they are the same in STL...." then it may result in the B16A2 getting a 2% adder as well.

is there a ST advisory committee? and if so, do they see these rules before the CRB rules on these rules?

[Greg Amy]

First, I'm on the STAC. The STAC reviews and makes recommendations to the CRB.

Second, don't send in a request for clarification. It has already been discussed. Nothing will change.

Third, there is nothing to straighten out. All non-US-market engines are getting a 2% adder. The B16A is a non-US-market engine. Period, no debate. Thus, it gets a 2% adder.

Fourth, the STAC - and by extension, the CRB - cannot simply go on record and declare "hey, you can use this engine freely because it's exactly the same thing" because it would take about 1.32 nanoseconds before someone shows up with some wild-assed Portugese-only-spec engine and claims it's the same thing as the one that came in their Us market car.

Fifth, we've discussed this here before: the STCS - and even the ITCS - states, paraphrased, that alternate parts are allowed as long as they are duplicates of the original parts. So, make sure the parts are the same, to the satisfaction of your competitors and the Scrutineers. Just don't expect a carte-blanche CRB approval for your alternate parts, as you will not get it.

GA

[tom91ita]

Greg,

Thanks for the clarification.

about all i really know about this motor is that it was an abandoned CRX swap project in a barn in southern Minnesota.

i dragged it out of some kid's grandfather's barn and onto Jabaay's borrowed trailer and gave the kid $1500 for the signed title. i sold the shell for $1100 and gave Jabaay $100 for helping me find the B16 and for pulling the motor and finding a buyer for the shell.

then i put it into my car the week before the runoffs. the whole alphabet soup of A vs. A2 vs. A3 and OBD0, OBDI, OBDII i am still trying to sort out. most of what i learned/forgot is from WIKI.

i am going to convert it to OBDI(?) so i will at least know what distributor to buy if i have a failure.

[Greg Amy]

about all i really know about this motor is that it was an abandoned CRX swap project in a barn in southern Minnesota.

If I were not on the STAC, I would recommend that you research the engine to the best of your ability to ensure its compliance to the specs as found in the workshop manual for the Honda B16A2 or A3 ('99 Civic Si, Del Sol.)

Then I'd suggest taking a grinder and grinding off the engine block identification such that there is no question (though its absence may cause some questions, to which you'll respond "let's toss some paper and measure some parts".)

But I am on the committee, so I probably shouldn't suggest that publicly...

GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

If I were not on the STAC, I would recommend that you research the engine to the best of your ability to ensure its compliance to the specs as found in the workshop manual for the Honda B16A2 or A3 ('99 Civic Si, Del Sol.)

Then I'd suggest taking a grinder and grinding off the engine block identification such that there is no question (though its absence may cause some questions, to which you'll respond "let's toss some paper and measure some parts".)

But I am on the committee, so I probably shouldn't suggest that publicly...

GA

What an awesome rule!!!! Now I have no visual evidence of what you claim is in the car and what your weight is based off of. I effectively have to throw paper and tear you down just to know. Ugh.

Edit: Make JDM stuff illegal unless approved on a spec line, period. Are JDM blocks that much easier to find or something? What's the point in sourcing something from overseas if it's the 'same' as the local sauce?

[Chip42]

Greg,

Thanks for the clarification.

about all i really know about this motor is that it was an abandoned CRX swap project in a barn in southern Minnesota.

i dragged it out of some kid's grandfather's barn and onto Jabaay's borrowed trailer and gave the kid $1500 for the signed title. i sold the shell for $1100 and gave Jabaay $100 for helping me find the B16 and for pulling the motor and finding a buyer for the shell.

then i put it into my car the week before the runoffs. the whole alphabet soup of A vs. A2 vs. A3 and OBD0, OBDI, OBDII i am still trying to sort out. most of what i learned/forgot is from WIKI.

i am going to convert it to OBDI(?) so i will at least know what distributor to buy if i have a failure.

tom - if you have the old B16A intake, the one that looks like a ~93 integra's with a PGM-FI badge on it, that will have to go in favor of a A2 or A3 manifold, which should be better anyhow. to the best of my knowledge, the motors are otherwise identical in all STCS relevant ways.

and tGA - I'm not trying to be a pain, just kinda scratching my head here. will the listed VW EDM motor be getting a 2% bump, too?

[Greg Amy]

will the listed VW EDM motor be getting a 2% bump, too?

Not unless you ask for it...it snuck in before CRB started adding adders...

[lawtonglenn]

I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of your premise.

I can certainly confirm the existence of his premise ... but the accuracy of it???

[Greg Amy]

I can certainly confirm the existence of his premise ... but the accuracy of it???

You've been Glomar'd...