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Thread: "Regional Championship" Nationals exclusion?

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    Default "Regional Championship" Nationals exclusion?

    In the past (per my recollection), "National" drivers were excluded for "Regional" championships.

    Are "majors" drivers now excluded? it seems odd since there is a "regional" path as well as a "Majors" path to the Runoffs. And wouldn't someone qualifying for the runoffs via the "regional" path be a "national" driver?

    thoughts?
    1985 CRX Si competed in Solo II: AS, CS, DS, GS
    1986 CRX Si competed in: SCCA Solo II CSP, SCCA ITA, SCCA ITB, NASA H5
    1988 CRX Si competed in ITA & STL

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    Quote Originally Posted by tom91ita View Post
    In the past (per my recollection), "National" drivers were excluded for "Regional" championships.
    That has never been the case. You can compete freely among Regional and Majors (nee National) events with any compatible cars/license.

    The last time there was any driver exclusions like that was back in the 50s, when "pro" drivers were excluded from "club" events. But that went the way of racing through the streets of Watkins Glen and Elkhart Lake.

    There are no more National events and no more National licenses. All drivers are either licensed competitors or are on Novice Permits.

    GA
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

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    I believe Tom is referencing GLDIV specific division rules. (I think - he's gettin awfully old...)
    Steve Linn | Fins Up Racing | #6 ITA Sentra SE-R | www.indyscca.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by Racerlinn View Post
    I believe Tom is referencing GLDIV specific division rules. (I think - he's gettin awfully old...)


    Are you saying that GLDIV used to exclude National-licensed drivers from Regional events...? That would be pretty incredible...
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

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    Yes i was referencing the Great Lakes Regional Championship Series

    http://www.greatlakes-scca.org/node/249

    National Drivers were not excluded from races but from points for the "Regional" championships.

    From the 2012 RCS rules:


    Drivers who participate in the current year Runoffs shall not be eligible for Regional Championships. Drivers who earn more than 13 National points within the GLD Pointskeeping shall not be eligible for Regional championships.
    looks like references to "National" drivers is gone from this year's RCS.
    1985 CRX Si competed in Solo II: AS, CS, DS, GS
    1986 CRX Si competed in: SCCA Solo II CSP, SCCA ITA, SCCA ITB, NASA H5
    1988 CRX Si competed in ITA & STL

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    Steve, i may be old but i intend to beat you in ITA this year at the IT Fest!

    if i remember to go that is.....
    1985 CRX Si competed in Solo II: AS, CS, DS, GS
    1986 CRX Si competed in: SCCA Solo II CSP, SCCA ITA, SCCA ITB, NASA H5
    1988 CRX Si competed in ITA & STL

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    edited to try to differentiate between how it used to work and how it works now.

    Not sure if it is clear, but he means points, not races. In the past you could run any race you want, but you were not eligible for regional championship points. Which technically should have been called divisional championships, since they were divisional championships made up of points earned at regional races. Which seems to be what they did this year, rename it "Division Championship", almost got to "divisional championship", but not quite, maybe next year.

    But for this year:

    Per my reading, major races don't earn points toward the division championship series. Just the 6 regional (there's that regional word again) weekends count to the DCS, a total of 12 races. 12/2+1 = best 7 finishes.

    Paragraph 6 is quite clear: Everyone now earns divisional points. If someone runs majors and even qualifies for the runoffs thru majors, that person is still eligible to earn divisional points and even "win" the divisional championship series. In the past the points earned at each event are based only on drivers within GLD, out of division drivers are ignored, so you could finish 4th and still earn 1st place points by being the first GLD driver. I don't see that explicitly mentioned in this year's rules.

    Also note that there is a difference between earning the right to go to the runoffs thru the DCS and winning the divisional annual championship since there are regional races after the runoffs. So drivers A,B,C could be in 1st,2nd,3rd place when the eligiblity for the runoffs is decided, but driver D could earn points after the runoffs and win the divisional championship. That's not confusing at all, is it?
    Jim Hardesty
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    Never argue your tab at the end of the night. Remember, you're hammered and they’re sober.

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    Our Championship races this year are:

    May 10 & 11
    GingerMan
    South Bend /Detroit/Western Ohio
    Double Regional
    June 28 & 29
    Grattan
    WMR
    Double Regional
    August 9 & 10
    Mid Ohio
    Cincinnati
    Double Regional
    August 30 & 31
    Mid Ohio
    Ohio Valley
    Double Regional
    October 11 & 12
    Mid Ohio
    Ohio Valley
    Double Regional
    October 18 & 19
    NeOhio
    Pittsburgh International Race Course
    Quad Regional **


    From page 3 of 6 of the 2014 rules:


    NOTE: The fact that the Great Lakes Division has two to three regional races that occur on or after three weeks prior to the Runoffs each year, points earned from those races will be included in the pathway to the Runoffs for the next year. Points earned after the Runoffs cutoff date will be accrued for the calendar year.
    Drivers can run in multiple classes, but they must meet the same race minimum criterion for each as delineated above.
    No out of Division races will count toward the GLD Championship Series.
    so the races in October count for Runoffs points in 2015 but GLD Championship in 2014 is my understanding.
    1985 CRX Si competed in Solo II: AS, CS, DS, GS
    1986 CRX Si competed in: SCCA Solo II CSP, SCCA ITA, SCCA ITB, NASA H5
    1988 CRX Si competed in ITA & STL

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    I think you got it. That's pretty simple, eh?

    It would be simpler if we just used the current points up to the cutoff for the runoffs qualification, but the thinking probably is that it would affect entries to races after the cutoff if they don't count toward the runoffs.
    Jim Hardesty
    ITC 1986 Honda Civic Diablo Rojo Verde
    Never argue your tab at the end of the night. Remember, you're hammered and they’re sober.

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    I wonder if there are any stats on which path folks took to the runoffs. My guess is that it is the majors.
    1985 CRX Si competed in Solo II: AS, CS, DS, GS
    1986 CRX Si competed in: SCCA Solo II CSP, SCCA ITA, SCCA ITB, NASA H5
    1988 CRX Si competed in ITA & STL

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    So, if someone ran these races all year and accumulated points, that driver would have to decide at the end of the year if he wanted to forfeit a possible "division" championship so he could attend the Runoffs? And what of the subsequent "division" winner, the guy that actually finished second in al the races? He's now suddenly the "champion" because the actual champion decided to go to Road America (to finish mid-pack)?

    I understand the point, but that's pretty wonky.
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

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    No. I think that conflict is now gone as I read the current rules. In the past it was sort of similar to restrictions for the arrc. Didn't that have something about runoffs drivers not being eligible?

    I think it was likely to encourage regional Participation. Certainly for IT it is not much of an issue.

    Greg do you know of any stats on which path folks took the runoffs? The majors seem to be the more direct/sure thing. Also least expensive in terms of events.
    1985 CRX Si competed in Solo II: AS, CS, DS, GS
    1986 CRX Si competed in: SCCA Solo II CSP, SCCA ITA, SCCA ITB, NASA H5
    1988 CRX Si competed in ITA & STL

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    Quote Originally Posted by tom91ita View Post
    Greg do you know of any stats on which path folks took the runoffs? The majors seem to be the more direct/sure thing. Also least expensive in terms of events.
    That will require a time machine which goes forward. As this is the first year of the Majors/Divisional paths to the runoffs.

    Edit: And Greg you have it wrong. If a driver runs both majors and divisional champ events and is in first place in both, the driver wins both. There is no either or for championships.

    The either-or is that the person in 4th is the 3rd qualifier to the runoffs thru the divisional path because the 1st place driver is eligible thru majors and therefore doesn't count. But the superstud driver doesn't "decide" which path to use, major path is first so that's the one that driver will use.
    Last edited by jumbojimbo; 03-08-2014 at 04:56 PM.
    Jim Hardesty
    ITC 1986 Honda Civic Diablo Rojo Verde
    Never argue your tab at the end of the night. Remember, you're hammered and they’re sober.

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    The 2013 "paths" had both the majors "turn a wheel" participation as well as being the top 3 in the division. Top 3 as in nationals. Still not why some documents refer to regionals. I think a regional is any race that is not a major?

    http://www.scca.com/news/index.cfm?cid=51213
    1985 CRX Si competed in Solo II: AS, CS, DS, GS
    1986 CRX Si competed in: SCCA Solo II CSP, SCCA ITA, SCCA ITB, NASA H5
    1988 CRX Si competed in ITA & STL

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    Quote Originally Posted by tom91ita View Post
    The 2013 "paths" had both the majors "turn a wheel" participation as well as being the top 3 in the division. Top 3 as in nationals. Still not why some documents refer to regionals. I think a regional is any race that is not a major?

    http://www.scca.com/news/index.cfm?cid=51213
    Ah, true there was some kind of majors vs nationals eligibility. Good luck getting stats on that one, good luck figuring it out.

    Technically in GLD there are three types of races: Majors, Divisional Championship and "other". This year the only two "other" races are the two sanction number races on the quad weekend which don't count toward the divisional championship. It is possible there could be other similar sanction number races, it's not a given that every non-major race counts toward the divisional championship. There could be an enduro or some kind of restricted uh...regional.

    But I get your point, the terminology needs to be cleaned up.
    Jim Hardesty
    ITC 1986 Honda Civic Diablo Rojo Verde
    Never argue your tab at the end of the night. Remember, you're hammered and they’re sober.

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    Kumho tire has a "regional" contingency for 2014.

    That was part of why I questioned what is a "regional" race.
    1985 CRX Si competed in Solo II: AS, CS, DS, GS
    1986 CRX Si competed in: SCCA Solo II CSP, SCCA ITA, SCCA ITB, NASA H5
    1988 CRX Si competed in ITA & STL

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    Quote Originally Posted by tom91ita View Post
    Kumho tire has a "regional" contingency for 2014.

    That was part of why I questioned what is a "regional" race.
    Kumho can do whatever they want, but in that context, "regional" should mean any non-major race.
    Jim Hardesty
    ITC 1986 Honda Civic Diablo Rojo Verde
    Never argue your tab at the end of the night. Remember, you're hammered and they’re sober.

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