Order of cars going out for qualifying

[gran racing]

In order to eliminate cars showing up along side the grid fence a qualifying session or two before their time to qualify, would it be possible for other solutions? Some other regions base it upon previous qualifying times or just by pulling a number out of a hat.

What are peoples' thoughts about doing this? How difficult would it be to make happen?

[Greg Amy]

I like what MARRS does - a lot. It avoids congestion before the grid and allows reduction in stress in trying to fight for a preferred spot on the grid.

Can someone obtain their procedures? Maybe it's something we can discuss here in NER.

[MMiskoe]

Anyone lined up along the road leading to grid prior to grid being emptied for the previous session gets sent to pit lane to be started after the session is green by the mercy of pit out.

After being told "get over yourself, you're racing for an ashtray."

[gran racing]

The it just becomes a race to grid once it opens up. Yes, it's an ashtray but it's an ashtray many of us spend a lot of money and time to get.

GRID: Grids for Saturday morning qualifying will be set in advance by the Driver Representatives and will be posted at Registration. The Saturday afternoon race grids will be set by Saturday morning qualifying. Sunday's race grids (including the bonus race) will be set by the fastest lap from either Saturday session.

I'll reach out to the region to get a better understanding of this.

[lawtonglenn]

...After being told "get over yourself, you're racing for an ashtray."

LOL that line should be used much more often!

[Wreckerboy]

MARRS has done it both by points and by (historical) times. I believe the process is chosen by the individual class reps, and not by sweeping edict, thus each run group may differ. Reach out to Dave Parker and/or Matt Yip for details.

SAARC/MARRS at VIR is done by the host regions rules, and thus a land rush. Some less attentive MARRS regulars were caught out by that last year.

[dickita15]

how big a problem is this. I have not noticed it in my race group much. is it just an SM thing?

[ajmr2]

Years ago the MARRS series tolerated the paddock pre grid thing, but changed to the current procedure due to safety concerns and the need to keep those roads clear and speeds down. I personally find it excellent. Our normal qualifying procedure is that we line up according to the predetermined list, but the grid folks certainly don't mind it since it's the same as their race grid procedure. The ITS guys line up first and the rest of us behind. We are immediately given a green flag as we come out of pit out, and those ITS guys normally come around pretty quickly. I don't waste time scubbing tires since we only need one good lap, which for me usually comes in the 2nd half of the session if I have a little luck and keep an eye in my mirrors. I have rarely heard anyone complain about it.

[MMiskoe]

I don't think doing a random pick from a hat adds that much extra work.

So you'll be taking care of it then. Sounds like the problem is solved - Dave's going to cover it. See you at grid.

[Knestis]

Random observations (of bees, perhaps)...

** A random drawing, while "equitable" in the sense that everyone has a chance of getting any givens spot, won't be perceived as equitable when random chance leaves someone feeling like they got screwed (see "I kept ending up in the 20s" earlier).

** A process that puts the historically faster cars in front (like I stepped into at a MARRS weekend) is NOT equitable for the new addition to the grid; instead it helps lock in established IN-equities that favor the frontrunners.

** Some folks may not prefer being up front, so ending up there won't be a "win" for them. In a mixed group (a la ITS/ITB ) I've often found advantages by being tail-end Charlie, giving a lot of room in front of me with a slow first lap, then poaching off of the fast guys' air when they catch and pass me on the straights.

K

[Wreckerboy]

Random observations (of bees, perhaps)...

** A process that puts the historically faster cars in front (like I stepped into at a MARRS weekend) is NOT equitable for the new addition to the grid; instead it helps lock in established IN-equities that favor the frontrunners.

K

K, you make some valid points, but I will take exception to this one. Based upon personal experience as a one time "new addition to (a MARRS) grid" I faced this same issue. The solution wasn't simple, but it was workable - I raced my way to the front. When I first started racing in the MARRS series I was gridded in the wayback portion of the field - often starting a qualifying session 30th or worse. For a few seasons the existence of the pace car was only an ugly rumour perpetuated by the 2% up front. Of course the front runners had the advantage of a clear track, and I had to earn my way there. It meant that as a relative newbie that I needed to work on developing enough racecraft to figure out how to get that flier to at least get me within shouting distance of the sharp edge of the pack.

[Greg Amy]

(If someone wants to start from the back instead their "earned" spot up front - either through speed or lottery - they can simply show up at the grid at the "one"...gives you five more minutes of prep time, too...)

[Knestis]

K, you make some valid points, but I will take exception to this one. Based upon personal experience as a one time "new addition to (a MARRS) grid" I faced this same issue. The solution wasn't simple, but it was workable - I raced my way to the front. When I first started racing in the MARRS series I was gridded in the wayback portion of the field - often starting a qualifying session 30th or worse. For a few seasons the existence of the pace car was only an ugly rumour perpetuated by the 2% up front. Of course the front runners had the advantage of a clear track, and I had to earn my way there. It meant that as a relative newbie that I needed to work on developing enough racecraft to figure out how to get that flier to at least get me within shouting distance of the sharp edge of the pack.

So (recognizing that I'm involved in this really as an academic exercise) why shouldn't it be necessary for EVERYONE to "race their way in" afresh each weekend (a la as would be the case with a randomly assigned qualifying session starting spot)? How about rewarding the kind of racecraft you describe over historical success...?

Kirk (who tends to lean away from established power structures on race weekends in addition to in his politics)