The Current State of Improved Touring

[seckerich]

Atlanta IT has not recovered from the mass defection of drivers and shops to SM. Add to that the tender, forgiving nature of the walls at Road Atlanta and it is hard to see why.

[Xian]

Steve makes a great point about SM... any idea how much/many of the ITA entries are double dipped out of SM? I'm guessing that would be just about impossible to figure out barring a ton of extra entrant info and parsing.

[JeffYoung]

For stuff on mylaps, I can't get it. FOr stuff at VIR and other places where I can get actual pdfs of results sheets, I can get car makes.

Even in ITS, SM double dipping helps fill the field. 3 double dipped SMs in last October's VIR ITS race with a 15 car field.

My guess is the numbers with ITA are similar or even more SMs.

But they are still IT entries and what I've found is that double dipped cars are usually guys trying IT because they are tired of something in SM and looking to come over.

[Knestis]

A fair point about perceptions. I'm guilty of using the ARRC as a bellwether.

It's no question that ITA is benefiting from some SM crossover, just as STL does. Jeff's right that it's not possible to tell "spec" from entry lists but the ITNT results show A numbers profit from the presence of a lot of Miatae.

http://itnationaltour.com/images/dow...itntpoints.pdf

K

EDIT - and +1 on the idea that those crossover SMs can honestly be counted as "IT cars." In some ways, I'll bet a lot of those cars are a throwback to the Old School, low-tech IT ideal that some folks really like.

[Ron Earp]

Topic too important to let flounder on a washer bottle thread.

Perception is extremely important to the life of a category or series. If potential racers perceive a class to be waning then they're likely to seek other venues in which to participate.

I feel that ST is on the rise and believe other racers think the same. But to what extent is ST(L) actually waxing if non-ST cars are eliminated from the car count? Remove the RX cars and the ITA/SM Miatas, then perform a count of ST cars that remain. It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.

I'll be interested to have a look at the participation numbers for IT once gathered up. Be happy to make graphs, perform statistical comparisons, and so on as needed.

[ShelbyRacer]

I see that Jeff has some numbers and stats, but I anticipate some discussion on this on the next ITAC (Mon 1/27).

Shoot me a PM with real specifics of what you'd like to compare, and I'll see what info I can gather. The more specific, the better the chance of getting it. You can also ask JeffY, but I didn't want to volunteer him without offering myself.

[almskidd]

http://www.scca.com/assets/2013_Regi...tion_FINAL.pdf

This tells you a lot of the information you are looking for. After exporting it to excel and dividing each attendance number by the number of races in the division, you will start to see why IT looks like its on the decline when you just randomly arrive at a race. A lot of the races at Sebring and Daytona have between 10-15 ITB cars at each race, however the overall SEDIV average for ITB is 2.5 per race, that is 5th best in the division. So that tells me a huge number of the 74 SEDIV races goes unattended in ITB. Same is true about ITA and ITS but with a better overall attendance (average 6.7 and 6.3 per race). For reference SRF averages 7.4 and SM averages 20.2 per race.

[ShelbyRacer]

And here is 2012-

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...tion_FINAL.pdf

I tried to get 2011 and earlier, but couldn't easily find it. I am interested to know car types as well, and that's not on those sheets...

[TomL]

I have the car count numbers for SARRC all the way back to 1996. There has been an overall decline in IT numbers since the late 1990s, but that doesn't tell the whole story. The big drop took place in the 2003-5 time period, when SM appeared. All the classes took a hit then, dropping by maybe a quarter. Since that time, ITA and ITS have remained about stable, with ITA entries up a bit (probably due to double-dipping SMs.) ITB and IT7 have steadily declined to about half the entries from 2004. ITC has taken the worst hit, going down by over half until this year, when it dropped off to less than a third of what they were ten years earlier. ITR was introduced in 2007, but its numbers aren't enough to offset the drop of even one of those three classes.

So parts of IT aren't looking great, but overall IT is doing better than most classes. I think a majority of classes are down by 50% or so in the same time period. But the strength of the best attended classes (SM, SRF, ITS and ITA), plus the addition of new classes like ST have kept the overall numbers fairly stable in the last few years. There was about a 20% drop in entries in the couple years after 2007, but things have been fairly stable since then. And regardless of the ups and downs, four of the top six classes this year are still IT (A/S/B/7).

I suspect that part of the perception that IT numbers are down in SEDiv is driven by the fact that per race numbers are substantially down. The number of SARRC races has grown from 24-25 ten years ago to 36 this year. Total IT entries are down around 20%. but per race entries are down by nearly half. The issue of the number of SARRC races is a problem to me, but I know the people who actually have to put on races feel differently. And all classes have lower per race entries for the same reason, so it's not an IT-specific issue.

[Knestis]

... I feel that ST is on the rise and believe other racers think the same. But to what extent is ST(L) actually waxing if non-ST cars are eliminated from the car count? Remove the RX cars and the ITA/SM Miatas, then perform a count of ST cars that remain. It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out. ...

SM crossover ITA cars should be counted as IT entries, and SM/ITA crossover cars to STL should as well. This isn't about orthodoxy. It's about entries and whatever it takes to get them is probably fair game.

Note that I've changed my opinion on this in the past few months, mostly because I've shifted my focus to the less-prepared end of any grid as the growth opportunity, rather than the pointy end.

K

[JeffYoung]

Tom Lyttle's post is an excellent one.

Look at one of his key points. IT entries have INCREASED 20% but the number of races has increased 50% in the SARRC. So the per race average is down but overall numbers up.

Talk about perception trumping reality.

Jeremy, I'm collecting the numbers. Send what you have to me if you could. THanks man.

[TomL]

Better re-read that Jeff. Total IT numbers are DOWN by 20%. Things aren't as bad as perceived, but they aren't THAT good.