December 2013 Fastrack

[Z3_GoCar]

Too close for roasting, Goose. I'm switching to sandwiches!

K

From Carmina Burana:
Olium Lacus Colueram
The English translation goes something like:

Once I had dwelt on lakes, once I had been beautiful, when I was a swan. Poor wretch! Now black and well roasted!
The cook turns me back and forth; I am roasted to a turn on my pyre; now the waiter serves me. Poor wretch! Now black and well roasted! Now I lie on the dish, and I cannot fly; I see the gnashing teeth. Poor wretch! Now black and well roasted!

Better make that a Veggie sandwich, maybe with Hummis

[lateapex911]

Ummm, that was very bizarre.

Gregs right.

Jakes Motor Blocks makes engines.
He makes a B26A.
It's just like a Honda B16A that everybody runs, but, he want's to make sales, so he charges less.
Would that be legal?
Damn straight it would.
If HONDA made it, would it then suddenly become ILLEGAL?
Of course not.
And if they lableled it B16, and to keep track of production numbers and warrantees and crap, they sold that one, labeled B16, but the same in every other way, only in Japan, would it now be suddenly illegal?
Of course not.
Now, if that engine uses a sooper flowy intake but only in Japan, does that mean the intake is legal because that labeled block came with those parts?
Of course not.

It's really very simple.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Ummm, that was very bizarre.

Gregs right.

Jakes Motor Blocks makes engines.
He makes a B26A.
It's just like a Honda B16A that everybody runs, but, he want's to make sales, so he charges less.
Would that be legal?
Damn straight it would.
If HONDA made it, would it then suddenly become ILLEGAL?
Of course not.
And if they lableled it B16, and to keep track of production numbers and warrantees and crap, they sold that one, labeled B16, but the same in every other way, only in Japan, would it now be suddenly illegal?
Of course not.
Now, if that engine uses a sooper flowy intake but only in Japan, does that mean the intake is legal because that labeled block came with those parts?
Of course not.

It's really very simple.

It seems simple. Except you need to add a rule:

Jake's Motor Blocks are specifically ILLEGAL per the rules.
There is a reason that JMB are illegal, most of them are not the US spec that is required.
But some of them are exactly the same at the US versions that are legal.
Are those now legal? ESPECIALLY if they have stampings that say they are JMB's, which are indeed specifically illegal

Do we need people to have to know JDM or NUSDM specs?

[lateapex911]

I, and the company I own and represent are INSULTED by your shameful slur, sir!
Why are my blocks illegal?? The specific blocks in question are exact clones of the blocks that Honda sells, services and installs as replacements in the car that are approved and raced in STL.

By side company, Jakes Brake Discs has been supplying most of the field with my identical, but made with Polynesian and African labor, so that i can sell for lower prices....and nobody has any issues with their legality.

I fail to see the difference.

The fact that I am selling the exact same blocks to the guys who run in the JPL class of the SCCJ (Sports Car Club of Japan) where the rules state that original equipment blocks must be used shouldn't enter into your thought process.

My blocks meet the exact replacement rules, and my part numbers have no bearing on anything, nor should the other markets that they are used in.

If somebody feels the replacement parts I make are indeed not exact copies of the proper part, then they should determine the difference and protest me.

[Bill Miller]

I, and the company I own and represent are INSULTED by your shameful slur, sir!
Why are my blocks illegal?? The specific blocks in question are exact clones of the blocks that Honda sells, services and installs as replacements in the car that are approved and raced in STL.

By side company, Jakes Brake Discs has been supplying most of the field with my identical, but made with Polynesian and African labor, so that i can sell for lower prices....and nobody has any issues with their legality.

I fail to see the difference.

The fact that I am selling the exact same blocks to the guys who run in the JPL class of the SCCJ (Sports Car Club of Japan) where the rules state that original equipment blocks must be used shouldn't enter into your thought process.

My blocks meet the exact replacement rules, and my part numbers have no bearing on anything, nor should the other markets that they are used in.

If somebody feels the replacement parts I make are indeed not exact copies of the proper part, then they should determine the difference and protest me.

But there's a rule that specifically states that your engines are illegal. That's what the paper will refer to. If you want them to be allowed, I think it would be incumbent on you to get the rule changed the expressly prohibits them.

Seriously, I think that if they're dimensionally and metallurgicaly the same, they should be allowed. But outlawing JDM engines was the EASY button.

[dickita15]

The question comes down to the definition of engine. Is it the block or is it just a collection of specifications?

[Andy Bettencourt]

The question comes down to the definition of engine. Is it the block or is it just a collection of specifications?

I would think the latter. That is why I like 'USDM engine assemblies or their exact equivalent'or something like that.

[lateapex911]

Hazy definitions. It's only a JDM engine IF it's unique to that market. otherwise you are outlawing a label. Why then ONLY outlaw Honda labels? Why are all OTHER labels ok??

I can see that a clarification could make this easy. But, as it stands, I'd say identical trumps a label.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I, and the company I own and represent are INSULTED by your shameful slur, sir!
Why are my blocks illegal?? The specific blocks in question are exact clones of the blocks that Honda sells, services and installs as replacements in the car that are approved and raced in STL.

By side company, Jakes Brake Discs has been supplying most of the field with my identical, but made with Polynesian and African labor, so that i can sell for lower prices....and nobody has any issues with their legality.

I fail to see the difference.

The fact that I am selling the exact same blocks to the guys who run in the JPL class of the SCCJ (Sports Car Club of Japan) where the rules state that original equipment blocks must be used shouldn't enter into your thought process.

My blocks meet the exact replacement rules, and my part numbers have no bearing on anything, nor should the other markets that they are used in.

If somebody feels the replacement parts I make are indeed not exact copies of the proper part, then they should determine the difference and protest me.

Ahhh but they aren't exact clones. They are cast with the JMB logo and serial number easily identifying them as specifically illegal from the get go. Spec for spec notwithstanding, the rule specifically calls your product out as illegal.

Jake's Brake Discs however flourishes. Why? No specific rule disallowing them exists in the rulebook and they are exact replacement parts.

In all seriousness, saying something is explicitly illegal as one of the core rules and then hinting that it could be legal later on isn't a great rule. There is a huge difference in the IT and ST rules here. IT talks about specs and equivalency, while the ST rules say no right up front and then allow exact substitutions...but really not the original. It's specific in that regard.

There is a better rule to be written here and it's not because the original rule was bad, but because the class continues to evolve as to what is acceptable and what isn't IMO.