December 2013 Fastrack

[Gregg]

Completely agree...I was stunned to see this. Obviously nobody would expect an IT car to be competitive in another other than regional...er....divisional events where GT cars rarely roam (but could stand to boost the category's yearly numbers, thus saving, say GTL, from the chopping block), but this is as bad an idea as shoe-horning GTL and all their tube frameeness into HP and FP.

You can bet I'm writing against this one.

[dickita15]

Understand that the Prod committee asked for this and the CRB and BoD said okay and then is asking the GT committee if they are interested as well. The GT committee can request it or not.
I do not see the goal of this type of thing as just grabbing numbers from uncompetitive cars. As has happened in ST some drivers have double dipped with their IT cars, liked it and started to modify their car to ST specific prep.
If small GT classes are going to grow and survive they will need to be more inclusive with their rules so we did not want them to miss considering this type of opportunity.

[Greg Amy]

If small GT classes are going to grow and survive they will need to be more inclusive with their rules so we did not want them to miss considering this type of opportunity.

Agree. I'm not concerned about the numbers part, it's the difference in performance and safety equipment that gives me pause. I have experience with my STL car in the same group at the GTL cars, and the speed difference can be pretty significant. - GA

[Matt93SE]

Agree. I'm not concerned about the numbers part, it's the difference in performance and safety equipment that gives me pause. I have experience with my STL car in the same group at the GTL cars, and the speed difference can be pretty significant. - GA

I can see an issue between a backmarker IT and a front-running GTL car, but they already run in the same race group here anyway. The only difference would be the letters on the door for SWDIV.

[Chip42]

the rearrangement of groupings to get IT, prod, and GTL all in separate groups to allow for IT triple dipping would be very difficult in some places as usually 2 of the 3 are run together.

overall I think IT in GT is rather silly, and while I don't object on the grounds of danger I'd suggest it might be better to let the prod or ST cars run as GT in their current prep. IT in ST and P, P and/or ST in GT, GT in P... double dipping for everyone!

then we can consolidate everything to 2 categories of stock tubs (T, IT, ST) and flared fenders (P, GT) and call it a day.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I respect Dick's thoughts but I just don't buy it's not a grab at car counts to save classes. IT to Prod makes sense but IT to GT? That's a huge prep jump and if you were interested in tube frames and the like, you would already be there or in Prod looking to make a move.

[Matt93SE]

I respect Dick's thoughts but I just don't buy it's not a grab at car counts to save classes. IT to Prod makes sense but IT to GT? That's a huge prep jump and if you were interested in tube frames and the like, you would already be there or in Prod looking to make a move.

The majority of the cars in all of those classes around here are tub Miatas. Change the tires, add some fender flares, cut the windshields off, stick a cam and SIR in it, IT-->GTL!

[dickita15]

I respect Dick's thoughts but I just don't buy it's not a grab at car counts to save classes. IT to Prod makes sense but IT to GT? That's a huge prep jump and if you were interested in tube frames and the like, you would already be there or in Prod looking to make a move.

Well for one thing, IMHO, GT will not survive if they only cater to tube frame cars.

[Knestis]

I respect Dick's thoughts but I just don't buy it's not a grab at car counts to save classes. IT to Prod makes sense but IT to GT? That's a huge prep jump and if you were interested in tube frames and the like, you would already be there or in Prod looking to make a move.

Ditto. Sorry, it's a blatant numbers grab.

The IT-to-Prod allowance is really only a matter of degree, since we could damn near do that before with Prep 2.

The GT option, if it's done the same way as the Prod option, where one can run in the same class where the car would be correctly classified, is beyond silly. Completely irrespective of lap times - 18 seconds, thinking of a MkIII Golf and comparing lap records at VIR, ITB to GT3 - there is exactly NO way that someone is going to decide to "modify their cars to meet the requirements" of the GT category.

No.

Way.

I think of it like this: If nobody actually turns their IT car into a GT car in the next 5 years, is it evidence that the policy is a failure? So we'll kill it...? No. Because that's not the actual intention of the rule change.

K

EDIT - And at some level, this is pretty insulting. IT isn't good enough to be a National (now Majors) category, but it's GREAT to add to the existing classes to make up their failing numbers. That's like telling a woman she's fine to have sex with, but you can't be seen in public with her.

[jumbojimbo]

the rearrangement of groupings to get IT, prod, and GTL all in separate groups to allow for IT triple dipping would be very difficult in some places as usually 2 of the 3 are run together.

overall I think IT in GT is rather silly, and while I don't object on the grounds of danger I'd suggest it might be better to let the prod or ST cars run as GT in their current prep. IT in ST and P, P and/or ST in GT, GT in P... double dipping for everyone!

then we can consolidate everything to 2 categories of stock tubs (T, IT, ST) and flared fenders (P, GT) and call it a day.

Isn't it more likely this would be used at a majors weekend with someone double dipping in GT and Prod?

Although personally I don't buy the "get a taste of it" argument. So I qualify 10 seconds slower and never see another car in my class, how is that getting a "taste" of a class? And even if it is successful, how does that help? one less IT car and one more prod car is a win-win, in what universe? It smacks of the usual attitude that national classes are "better" and faster classes are "better".

Edit: I hope that didn't sound too bitter and cynical.