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Thread: STL weights?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt View Post
    I would also wait based on the simple fact that the Runoffs are headed to a track that is so much less HP dependent. STL is a class that will be very track specific in my mind. With cars in the same pocket in terms of HP-to-weight, but at vastly different HP levels, at a track like RA 210-215whp will be an advantage on the big end, even at 3000lbs.

    Laguna will be interesting. Torque and nimbleness I think will be the recipe.
    I've walked around MRLS, raced around it on a bicycle, and in a car. I'm sorry, but I beg to disagree. MRLS is a HP track because it's like RA's front straight on every major straight... slow for turn 11, then front straight with a hill in it, slow for turn 6, the the whole straight is a hill, tap brakes for turn 7 and the whole straight is a hill. The secret to faster lap times at Laguna Seca is... Mor Powah/less weight.

  2. #22
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    Except that in STL, the formula is Mor Powah, Mor Weight. Someplace like RA is about overcoming aero drag. Weight plays little to no role in that. The climb is theoretically going to make weight count 'cause you gotta put potential energy into all that mass as it gets to the top of the Corkscrew.

    K

    EDIT - Of course, you get it all back coming DOWN...

  3. #23
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    K - does that include the additional energy gained for taking the Zanardi line?
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB_k_wlr5Bc[/ame]

  4. #24
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    Default Just to clarify

    A ITS Prelude with a 2.3 motor cannot run as a STL? Asking before I start digging.
    Thanks Rick
    Rick Benazic
    All Star Sheet Metal inc.


    ITS Honda prelude #06

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazzlesa View Post
    A ITS Prelude with a 2.3 motor cannot run as a STL? Asking before I start digging.
    Thanks Rick
    Nope. STL has a 2L limit. 2.3L is STU.
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

  6. #26
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    Thanks Greg
    Rick Benazic
    All Star Sheet Metal inc.


    ITS Honda prelude #06

  7. #27
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    Rick, go with a type r and run in ITR as well. I think that is now eligible for STL. Maybe ask Greg first though, kinda confused on if you can do that or not but I think you could. Then we could run together again! :-)

    Stephen

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenB View Post
    Rick, go with a type r and run in ITR as well. I think that is now eligible for STL.
    Intake cam non-compliant for STL....you could swap them between sessions if you wanted...
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

  9. #29
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    Greg, what would be the weight difference?

    Stephen

  10. #30
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    STL car would be 2430+2% = 2479. ITR car is 2535? Another concern is ITR allows +.5 points compression ratio which would put the Type R at 11.1, over the STL limit of 11:1 (but, in reality, not likely to be "scrutineerable"). Finally, remember that STL allows 17x7 wheels and 225 tires, so the ITR may be over that (though unlike your car, the brakes are fine).

    - GA
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Amy View Post
    STL car would be 2430+2% = 2479. ITR car is 2535? Another concern is ITR allows +.5 points compression ratio which would put the Type R at 11.1, over the STL limit of 11:1 (but, in reality, not likely to be "scrutineerable"). Finally, remember that STL allows 17x7 wheels and 225 tires, so the ITR may be over that (though unlike your car, the brakes are fine).

    - GA
    Wowser... looks like that could be an awesome STL car. I am thinking Geoff may be interested in this. I will chat with him this week!

  12. #32
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    also remember that a type R in ITR might be <2.0L but ITR cars aren't allowed in STL in IT trim, no matter what their displacement.

    so it's an ITR car
    or and STL car
    or made compliant to both, which is really not likely given the cam.

  13. #33
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    Ya that is more complicated. How much power loss is that? (Hp and torque) any rough estimates?

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip42 View Post
    or made compliant to both, which is really not likely given the cam.
    Concur. It's possible to make a Type R compliant to both on all aspects...*except* the camshaft. Ignoring the intake camshaft, you could run 17x7 wheels and 225 tires, and only build your engine to 11.0:1 compression ratio (that extra 0.1 won't make a significant difference.) All those aspects are compliant.

    However, here's where the conflict in the regs comes with the cams. IT doesn't now allow anything but stock cams, and the stock intake cam on the Type R is about .460" total valve lift (official cam specs show less lift, but that's from 1mm lift measuring for duration). But STL only allows .425" total valve lift. So the IT cam is not compliant to STL regs, and you can't change the cam to the lower STL specs because that would be non-compliant to the IT regs. Otherwise, you could easily double up and run - likely reasonably competitively - in the Majors in STL.

    Your next question is, "would you approve the ITR Type R into STL as-is?" No, not right now. Getting the B18C5 approved into STL was a bit of a fight, and there are some that expect it to be an overdog. There's also significant concern about "scrutineer-ability" with the "factory head porting". And both of those concerns have good basis. I suggest that if someone seriously runs one of these in STL for a couple years, we see its progress and get some dyno runs, could re-address it, but not for the next couple racing seasons. Let's let this shake out and see where it ends up.

    - GA
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenB View Post
    Ya that is more complicated. How much power loss is that? (Hp and torque) any rough estimates?
    Dunno, kinda doubt any Honda fan-bois have reduced the stock cams on their Hype Rs...
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

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