re ITS prelude

[JeffYoung]

I can almost guarantee you that no off the shelf header will perform as well as a custom one designed by Burns or Pipemax. No one is tuning their header to a "stock" motor like we are.

I think I spent $1700 total to have Burns design my headers and exhaust, the collectors and installation. Go that route if you want the max. And it's not just peak, it's mid range you are looking for.

[boxedfox]

Completely agree. SMSP and Hytech are close in whp and torque results, yet results very slightly from car to car. Both are better than a DC header, though you can't beat a DC header for value.

Yep yep. I do have to say that it sucks having 3 rotary powered cars fly by you every time you get on the main straight at NJMP Thunderbolt. It was enough for me to break down and finally spend the money to get a good header made.

[quadzjr]

I can almost guarantee you that no off the shelf header will perform as well as a custom one designed by Burns or Pipemax. No one is tuning their header to a "stock" motor like we are.

I think I spent $1700 total to have Burns design my headers and exhaust, the collectors and installation. Go that route if you want the max. And it's not just peak, it's mid range you are looking for.

Just curious how did Burns design the installation? I used Burns then verified with my Pipemax software to get the designed lengths of stepped primaires. For the installation portion I used ICE engineering kit to model it in plastic then transfered that to metal.

[Ron Earp]

Funny to see Burns brought up. I just, as in yesterday, sent off a ton of info to them for exhaust V3.0 seeing if they might be able to help optimize further that we've got dyno plots and more of a handle about how the engine responds. Plus, we have the limitations of design placed on us by the car chassis. Burns helped us do the first two exhaust systems and there is no way I'd even think about an IT or race car exhaust without consulting them and running PipeMax.

Somebody down South needs to buy this and increase our ranks.

[mossaidis]

Yep yep. I do have to say that it sucks having 3 rotary powered cars fly by you every time you get on the main straight at NJMP Thunderbolt. It was enough for me to break down and finally spend the money to get a good header made.

I went from a OBX 4-1 $50 used (good torque, sh*t top-end) to a DC 4-1 $100 used (good all around) to a SMSP 4-1 $350 used (higher whp and no torque loss) to a Hytech $750 used (+1 whp, good torque increase and smoother torque curve). That Hytech and 2 rounds of tuning were the best "bolt-on" engine investments I have made.

[quadzjr]

Funny to see Burns brought up. I just, as in yesterday, sent off a ton of info to them for exhaust V3.0 seeing if they might be able to help optimize further that we've got dyno plots and more of a handle about how the engine responds. Plus, we have the limitations of design placed on us by the car chassis. Burns helped us do the first two exhaust systems and there is no way I'd even think about an IT or race car exhaust without consulting them and running PipeMax.

Somebody down South needs to buy this and increase our ranks.

My question still remains.. how do they design a header without having a model or a go buy of enigne and chassis? I can definetly see them having a model of a SN95 Mustang and maybe a V6 to model the bends and make sure the header fits. However for them to have a TR8 model with Rover V8 woudl be a suprise. Are you recieving bolt in headers from Burns?

[matt batson]

Yep yep. I do have to say that it sucks having 3 rotary powered cars fly by you every time you get on the main straight at NJMP Thunderbolt. It was enough for me to break down and finally spend the money to get a good header made.

once the header was made, did you no longer get demolished on the straights by the rotaries?
and, do you know if these rotaries were top builds (10/10ths)? or is that something you wouldn't know.....?

I'm still leaning towards RWD and 2nd gen rx-7...however, I know they are torque-less...

[boxedfox]

once the header was made, did you no longer get demolished on the straights by the rotaries?
and, do you know if these rotaries were top builds (10/10ths)? or is that something you wouldn't know.....?

I'm still leaning towards RWD and 2nd gen rx-7...however, I know they are torque-less...

I don't have the new header installed yet. Still on the hacked up DC Sports 4-2-1.

If I remember correctly, the two cars that would consistently motor past me were an ex-Speedsource car and an ex-Flatout Motorsports car. While I don't have dyno plots for their cars, I can tell you under no uncertain terms that they both make really good power up top. And I mean double digits more hp to the wheels good power.

[Ron Earp]

My question still remains.. how do they design a header without having a model or a go buy of enigne and chassis? I can definetly see them having a model of a SN95 Mustang and maybe a V6 to model the bends and make sure the header fits. However for them to have a TR8 model with Rover V8 woudl be a suprise. Are you recieving bolt in headers from Burns?

No. You get a cad drawing that shows pipe lengths and diameters, as well as merge collector diameters and specifications. They don't build the header, you do. They sell the collectors, flanges, mufflers, etc. I think they will build a header for you if you're local to them in CA, but I'm not even sure about that. The header fabrication is on your end.

They model your engine in their software (not external modeling, engine simulation). From this model they can optimize the header design. It ain't cheap, but it works and when you're looking for area under the curve it's gold.

[JeffYoung]

My question still remains.. how do they design a header without having a model or a go buy of enigne and chassis? I can definetly see them having a model of a SN95 Mustang and maybe a V6 to model the bends and make sure the header fits. However for them to have a TR8 model with Rover V8 woudl be a suprise. Are you recieving bolt in headers from Burns?

You send them very detailed engine specs on cam, lift, valve diameter, etc. They send you specs for primary lenght, sell you the collectors, and lengths for the exhaust. Hire local roundy round guy to fab it up.

[JeffYoung]

I don't have the new header installed yet. Still on the hacked up DC Sports 4-2-1.

If I remember correctly, the two cars that would consistently motor past me were an ex-Speedsource car and an ex-Flatout Motorsports car. While I don't have dyno plots for their cars, I can tell you under no uncertain terms that they both make really good power up top. And I mean double digits more hp to the wheels good power.

Or, they are just setup better and have a better corner exit....

Look, if you are fairly new, I've been in your shoes. The fast guys look unholy fast and you think it's all power. It's not.

Getting the car setup and getting to the power early is critical.

Kevin's told me the whp and torque the Prelude makes and it is within 10 hp peak of top notch RX7s, and the torque is way, way higher.

The car should be a potential winner in S, if set up and driver well.

[quadzjr]

You send them very detailed engine specs on cam, lift, valve diameter, etc. They send you specs for primary lenght, sell you the collectors, and lengths for the exhaust. Hire local roundy round guy to fab it up.

That is what my experience is.. okay.. I just wanted to make sure I was not missing something.

[R2 Racing]

I went from a OBX 4-1 $50 used (good torque, sh*t top-end) to a DC 4-1 $100 used (good all around) to a SMSP 4-1 $350 used (higher whp and no torque loss) to a Hytech $750 used (+1 whp, good torque increase and smoother torque curve). That Hytech and 2 rounds of tuning were the best "bolt-on" engine investments I have made.

On this (my old) Prelude, we went from a two-piece 4-2-1 DC Sports header to a one-piece 4-1 Hytech Header with Burns merge collector, and at $1300, it was hands down the best $/hp improvement I've ever made to an IT car.

[chuck baader]

If you compare Burns recommendations with PipeMax, you see quite a difference in the collectors. I had a Burns design built, bought the collectors, and it cost me 10hp and 15ft/lb. Went back to my old header with PipeMax recommended collectors and gained more than that back. Most impressive was the gains under the curve and especially from 5000 to 5600 redline. YRMV

[JeffYoung]

YMMV -- yes. Best approach is to use Burns and then double check with Pipemax. I think with Dr. EArp they were close, although I agree the double check is important. And then picking the correct one if they are not....