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Thread: Driving Experience At Last Chance Weekend WGI

  1. #1
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    Talking Driving Experience At Last Chance Weekend WGI

    Want to experience what it is like to be Wheel to Wheel racing in a controlled environment with NO RACING LICENSE REQUIRED?!?! Is this even possible? Yes it is!!!

    The Glen Region SCCA would like to invite you to our inaugural Last Chance: Club Racing Experience event on Friday October 3rd, 2013 at Watkins Glen International.

    What is the SCCA Racing Experience?

    This event will be a low risk “racing experience” event that provides an instructional environment to experience and learn about wheel to wheel racing in an easy to access format. The event will happen during the Glen Region’s Last Chance weekend.
    Tom Weaver: Logistics & Technical Support Manager IE truck driver for 1986 RX-7 ITS #63. "Diesel Haulin' Rotary" 2005 Dodge 2500 Quad Cab The Hemi has retired "Long Live the Hemi" Bill Weaver Driver- 2004 NYSRRC John Chave Award. 2006 & 2013 ITS NYSRRC Champion!. Truck Driver Named Glen Region Worker of the Year 2008.Located 45 miles southeast of Watkins Glen in Sayre PA.

  2. #2
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    Tom, is there no sanctioned school this year, or is this in addition to the school/race weekend?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew M View Post
    Tom, is there no sanctioned school this year, or is this in addition to the school/race weekend?
    Drew there will be drivers school for closed wheel cars. For additional info contact Ed Zebrowski at edzeb at juno . com
    Last edited by tdw6974; 08-09-2013 at 08:27 AM. Reason: Spelling
    Tom Weaver: Logistics & Technical Support Manager IE truck driver for 1986 RX-7 ITS #63. "Diesel Haulin' Rotary" 2005 Dodge 2500 Quad Cab The Hemi has retired "Long Live the Hemi" Bill Weaver Driver- 2004 NYSRRC John Chave Award. 2006 & 2013 ITS NYSRRC Champion!. Truck Driver Named Glen Region Worker of the Year 2008.Located 45 miles southeast of Watkins Glen in Sayre PA.

  4. #4
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    Just wish that we had some advertising for this. How can we get any newbs with a few notes on some obscure forums?
    Please step it up SCCA.
    Mike Ogren , FWDracingguide.com, 352.4288.983 ,http://www.ogren-engineering.com/

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdw6974 View Post
    Drew there will be drivers school for closed wheel cars. For additional info contact Ed Zebroski at edzeb at juno . com
    Thank you, sir!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdw6974 View Post
    Want to experience what it is like to be Wheel to Wheel racing in a controlled environment with NO RACING LICENSE REQUIRED?!?! Is this even possible? Yes it is!!!

    The Glen Region SCCA would like to invite you to our inaugural Last Chance: Club Racing Experience event on Friday October 3rd, 2013 at Watkins Glen International.

    What is the SCCA Racing Experience?

    This event will be a low risk “racing experience” event that provides an instructional environment to experience and learn about wheel to wheel racing in an easy to access format. The event will happen during the Glen Region’s Last Chance weekend.
    I like it... But I don't get it!! is it for street cars or race cars? is it riding or driving? What about cost and schedule? Lots of unexplained things in your post and no link for more info!

    This is certainly the direction we (SCCA) needs to take in its marketing though! Way to go on catching attention!!!

    Raymond "can you give more details on this... We have crew coming with us to the Enduro that might like it!" Blethen
    RST Performance Racing
    www.rstperformance.com

  7. #7
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    This got me thinking... how cool would it be too have club racing with a passenger similar to co drivers in rally. I know I would pay to ride with a few p people...

    Stephen

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenB View Post
    This got me thinking... how cool would it be too have club racing with a passenger similar to co drivers in rally. I know I would pay to ride with a few p people...

    Stephen
    I'm sure risk management would be onboard
    Last edited by ner88; 08-08-2013 at 12:56 PM. Reason: spelling
    Jerry
    NER South

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenB View Post
    This got me thinking... how cool would it be too have club racing with a passenger similar to co drivers in rally. I know I would pay to ride with a few p people...

    Stephen
    For some reason, I see the racing being a lot dirtier if passengers were involved.

  10. #10
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    Haha, I still think co drivers in club racing is as safe or safer than in rally, much safer "barriers" in club racing!

    But yea I get why this will never happen.. it is different than the norm


    So back on topic, what are the details on this? I do have some crew guys that may rely be interested in doing this with my car.

  11. #11
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    I will try to add some more info. I talked with Ed the other day. The concept, not completed yet, is that Thursday night (or Friday morning) there will be a class like the normal driver's school. Friday morning (regardless) the practice session, driver's school and race experience will alternate sessions. The driver's school and race experience drivers will alternate in the classroom throughout the day. There will be, by the end of the day, a "grid" and race start. There will not be any posted times, and the grid may be arbitrary.
    The driver does not need to have on track experience. The car does not need to be fully to the GCR (belts can be expired). The driver does not need a HANS. The driver needs all of the other things in the GCR however (like if the suit is a single layer, they need to have the nomex underwear).
    Things that I don't know: when the supps will be ready. When the schedule I suggested above will be final. How much will it cost? Whether in-car timing equipment is allowed.

    Lastly, my dad is probably going to do this. Anybody have a L or XL drivers suit floating around?
    Last edited by kcolbey; 08-09-2013 at 07:23 PM. Reason: not being a sexist
    Kyle C
    #69 ITA Honda CRX
    Glen Region Timing & Scoring Chief

  12. #12
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    I have the info from Ed. If I get a link to the data or permission to post it, I will add a page on my site.

    RE racing with passengers is a hoot! Ask Walsh about" My student can kick your students ass"
    Later. MM
    Mike Ogren , FWDracingguide.com, 352.4288.983 ,http://www.ogren-engineering.com/

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    http://www.ogren-engineering.com/clu...x-by-scca.html

    All the data..
    I am not sure if the CRX counts as a race school or novice book time. .. as they run separate groups. Look interesting tho and may lead to more new faces.

    How to spread the word? Later, MM
    Mike Ogren , FWDracingguide.com, 352.4288.983 ,http://www.ogren-engineering.com/

  14. #14
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    .

    I'm sorry, I just don't get it

    How is this different than letting a bunch of 15 year olds loose on the roads without
    bothering to get a license, as long as they "pinkie promise" not to crash?
    And since we believe your promise 100%, you won't need that pesky safety equipment (HNR)
    that we require of everyone else that has (or is trying to get) a license.

    OTOH, they will be going into classroom various times, and presumably some of the
    ontrack sessions will have no passing laps and carefully controlled passing laps, and
    be carefully monitored, before they get a gridded start ... so how is this even
    different than the driving school?

    I guess since they don't have to get a physical beforehand, and don't have to wear a
    Hans device, and can have 6 year old expired belts (which the sanctioning bodies have
    told us have the structural integrity of tissue paper) they can do the same things
    as the students in the next room, but not get credit for it towards a license?

    So....if they are willing to expose themselves to conditions with less safety equipment
    (and the doctor's blessing) than we require from everyone else, we are then willing to
    allow them to increase our organizational risk of litigation, even though we know that
    they have no on track experience?..I can just see the guy in the black robe now, asking:

    "so Mr Defendant, what you are telling me is that you knew the Plaintiff had no experience,
    and you know that beginners in your sport have more incidents than experienced racers?"


    "Yes, your Honor..."

    "And your analysis of the risks involved have resulted in the requirements of a medical
    professional signed physical exam, a Head and Neck Restraint, and a Safety Harness
    certified to be within its useful life, for all of the other participants in your events?"


    "Yes, your Honor..."

    "But you decided to allow the Plaintiff, who had no experience, was in your own words more
    likely to have an on-track incident, and due to his lack of experience was less able to
    understand the risks beforehand, to sign a waiver of these requirements that you impose
    upon licensed racers, and carefully inspect to ensure their compliance?


    "Yes, your Honor..."

    "Now if you can tell us, does your normal racing program have detailed and carefully worded
    specifications for roll cages? ... and does your tech staff carefully and methodically inspect
    newly presented rollcages to ensure they are compliant to these?


    "Yes, your Honor..."

    "and yet you decided that the Plaintiff's health and well-being wasn't worth protecting
    with the same level of roll cage safety technology? Do you have a (racial/cultural/gender/age)
    [circle one] bias against the Plaintiff that we should know about?


    "No your Honor, no bias, and we did not exempt them from the roll cage rules, please look
    at the bottom of the form, where we say that the only exceptions are 9.3.19.G and 9.3.20.C:..."


    "Perhaps, but in the middle of the form you list the Roll Cage Rules under the exceptions clause:
    All vehicles must meet the safety and equipment requirements of GCR 9.3.except:
    so therefore, it it correct to say that it is ambiguous whether the roll cage rules apply or are excepted?"


    "Yes, your Honor..."

    If anyone can better explain the concept for me, I'd certainly appreciate it.

    .
    Last edited by lawtonglenn; 08-13-2013 at 01:40 AM.

    Glenn Lawton
    GSMmotorsports
    #14 ITS RX7
    NARRC ITS Champion 2012
    NERRC ITS Champion 2013 12 11 10 09 08
    NERRC STU Champion 2010

    __________________

  15. #15
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    Easy Glenn,
    This is a pilot program and I am grateful for the folks at the Glen for stepping up and trying this out. We need to run some of these to learn how to do them better and having first class regions and tracks buy in will give us good feedback.
    The issue we are trying to address is that many groups, vintage and crap cans and such have a lot less hoops to deal with than at least the perception in SCCA.
    The Competition Driving Experience is limited to the lowers third or so of SCCA’s performance envelope. It uses the 13/13 rules in contact and has a chief instructor like a PDX to track and coach competitors. In exchange for those limitations the insurance companies and the risk management people have said we can have easier to comply with standards.
    This makes it possible for someone who has a GCR Safe car and personal gear available to self-certify the medical like the FAA does at their lowest level, buy a weekend membership and see what this racing thing is all about. This may be a path to club racing for some or it might be a perfect end destination for others. Either is fine.
    Those of us who are at the track all the time may not realize the 50% of all SCCA licensed drivers run two weekends or less a year. How long are those guys willing to go thru all the paperwork to keep current? Maybe if they could run some event where the paperwork was easier even if the racing was more gentlemanly they would be more likely to tie up a bay in their garage with that old race car.
    dick patullo
    ner scca IT7 Rx7

  16. #16
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    Doing a mock start with this program seems like trouble, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
    Dave Gran
    Real Roads, Real Car Guys – Real World Road Tests
    Go Ahead - Take the Wheel's Free Guide to Racing

  17. #17
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    Default Further Info/explanation Post 1 of 2

    Club Racing Experience,(CRX) By SCCA










    Announcing the Glen Region's Last Chance 'Racing Experience'-NO COMP LICENSE NEEDED!!!

    This is an all new event, never held at Watkins Glen International before!

    Want to experience what it is like to be Wheel to Wheel racing in a controlled environment with NO RACING LICENSE REQUIRED?!?! Is this even possible? Yes it is!!!

    The Glen Region SCCA would like to invite you to our inaugural Last Chance: Club Racing Experience event on Friday October 3rd, 2013 at Watkins Glen International.

    What is the SCCA Racing Experience?

    This event will be a low risk “racing experience” event that provides an instructional environment to experience and learn about wheel to wheel racing in an easy to access format. The event will happen during the Glen Region’s Last Chance weekend.

    Participation is open to any SCCA regular or weekend member. Members will be provided with a SCCA Racing Experience Participation Log to record their participation in the event. Participants must certify they have no known medical conditions that would cause them or others undue risk.

    Vehicles are intended to be production based vehicles with a performance level equal or less than normal in Club Racing classes Spec Miata or Improved Touring A. Spec Racer Fords may also be included. Vehicles that may be of a performance higher that those listed above will need to be approved by the Chief Steward before the event (Please contact Ed Zebrowski if your vehicle is of a higher level of performance). Vehicles need not have a SCCA Log Book.

    Let your crew, family and friends experience what you do behind the wheel. This is where you can do all of the above in a controlled environment and see what wheel to wheel action is like on track. Do stay tuned for more information and details! Or feel free to contact Ed Zebrowski, [email protected]



    Want to experience what it is like to be Wheel to Wheel racing in a controlled environment with NO RACING LICENSE REQUIRED?!?! Is this even possible? Yes it is!!!

    The Glen Region SCCA would like to invite you to our inaugural Last Chance: Club Racing Experience event on Friday October 3rd, 2013 at Watkins Glen International.

    SCCA Racing Experience:

    This event will be a low risk “racing experience” event that provides an instructional environment to experience and learn about wheel to wheel racing in an easy to access format. The event will happen during the Glen Region’s Last Chance weekend.

    Participation is open to any SCCA regular or weekend member. Members will be provided with a SCCA Racing Experience Participation Log to record their participation in the event. Participants must certify they have no known medical conditions that would cause them or others undue risk.

    Vehicles are intended to be production based vehicles with a performance level equal or less than normal in Club Racing classes Spec Miata or Improved Touring A. Spec Racer Fords may also be included. Vehicles that may be of a performance higher that those listed above will need to be approved by the Chief Steward before the event (Please contact Ed Zebrowski if your vehicle is of a higher level of performance). Vehicles need not have a SCCA Log Book.

    All vehicles must meet the safety and equipment requirements of GCR 9.3.except:

    9.3.19 G, All driver restraint systems shall have been certified under one of the following: SFI specification 16.1, 16.5, or FIA specification 8853/98 or 8854/98 and be in good shape with no signs of wear of fading,

    And 9.3.20.C the use of a head and neck restraint system that has been certified in accordance with SFI 38.1, FIA 8858-2002 or 88598-2010 is strongly recommended.

    All vehicles must meet the safety and equipment requirements of GCR 9.4. “Roll cages for GT and Production based cars” or Appendix I, “2007 Cage Rules”.

    The Chief Steward may waive deviations of compliance requirements for a car for an event.

    On track behavior will be in the spirit of GCR section 6. Any participant found to be overaggressive or dangerous may be black flagged and counseled by the Chief Instructor or his designee or excluded from the event. At a minimum any participant being found at fault in an accident will be put on probation for a recommended 13 months. Any participant being found at fault in an accident while on probation will be excluded for further participation in these events for 13 months.




    Club Racing Experience - Appendix A:

    By signing this Appendix, the driver herby agrees and affirms the following:

    This event will include on-track sessions under the new racing experience pilot program, CRX (Club Racing Experience), and will be run under the guidelines published by the SCCA Board of Directors in the January 2013 Fastrack. The intent of the program is to provide a Club Racing Experience to novice drivers in a safe and monitored environment. Drivers wanting to enter this program will be expected to read and sign this Appendix. When the signed Appendix is presented to the Chief Steward, a Driver Log Book will be issued for the driver and maintained by the Chief Steward. The Driver Log Book will be used to record driver on-track performance and will be presented to the driver at the end of the event. The Chairman, Stewards of the Meet, will collect the signed copies of Appendix A and include them with the Observers' report.

    The Chief Steward for the Club Racing Experience sessionsin cooperation with the Region’s representative, may modify the Schedule of Events, race group configurations and/or details related to this race group only. This program will be exempt from the usual Protest Process in place at SCCA Road Racing events.

    Drivers in this program will be expected to follow the rules as specified in Chapter 6 of the General Competition Rules (Racing Rules and Procedures) while participating in the event.These rules will be covered by the Chief Steward and the Chief Instructor. Technical inspection will be limited to just those items specifically addressed here.

    Participation is open to any SCCA regular or weekend member. Participants by signature of this Appendix certify they have no known medical conditions that would cause them or others undue risk.

    Vehicles are intended to be production-based vehicles with a performance level equal to, or less than, Club Racing classes Spec Miata or Improved Touring A. Spec Racer Fords may also be included. Any vehicle that demonstrates a performance level higher than Spec Miata or Improved Touring A may be excluded by the Chief Steward of the event.

    Driver Conduct:

    As a driver participating in the Club Racing Experience, your conduct is expected to be of the highest standard for the protection of everyone involved. Drivers will be observed and judged for safe driving by the Chief Steward, Chief Instructor, Race Chairman, course officials and peers.

    • Any driver driving in a careless, unsafe or erratic manner will receive a Black Flag and must immediately report to the Hot Pit Area for a conference with the Chief Steward (or Chief Instructor). Unsafe driving includes, but is not limited to: off course excursions (including 2 or 4wheels off course), spins, and passing in corners.


      • If a second Black Flag is shown, the driver will report to the Hot Pit for another conference with the Chief Steward and then return to the paddock for the remainder of the scheduled track session.
      • A third Black Flag shown to the driver will cause the driver to return to the Paddock Area and be excused from the remainder of the weekend.
    • Any car contact with another car or other object:
      • The responsible driver will be excused for the remainder of the event weekend and may be subject to further review or additional penalties.
      • When the two drivers cannot agree on who is the responsible party, both drivers may be excused for the remainder of the weekend.
    • Passing:
      • In a passing situation, the overtaking driver has the responsibility for making a safe pass, but this does not relieve the overtaken driver from any responsibility.
      • Both drivers must be alert(i.e. constantly checking your forward field of vision and your mirrors) and observant of what is occurring around them at all times.
      • Always provide racing room in passing conditions.
      • Whenever possible, slower drivers should point faster drivers around them.
    • The Chief Steward has the final word.
    Safety, Technical Inspection: To Be continued on next post!!!
    Tom Weaver: Logistics & Technical Support Manager IE truck driver for 1986 RX-7 ITS #63. "Diesel Haulin' Rotary" 2005 Dodge 2500 Quad Cab The Hemi has retired "Long Live the Hemi" Bill Weaver Driver- 2004 NYSRRC John Chave Award. 2006 & 2013 ITS NYSRRC Champion!. Truck Driver Named Glen Region Worker of the Year 2008.Located 45 miles southeast of Watkins Glen in Sayre PA.

  18. #18
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    Default Further info/explanation POST 2 of 2

    Part 2 of 2



    Safety, Technical Inspection:

    All vehicles must meet the safety and equipment requirements of GCR 9.3. EXCEPT 9.3.19.G and 9.3.20.C:

    9.3.19 G, All driver restraint systems shall have been certified under one of the following: SFI specification 16.1, 16.5, or FIA specification 8853/98 or 8854/98 and be in good shape with no signs of wear of fading,

    And 9.3.20.C the use of a head and neck restraint system that has been certified in accordance with SFI 38.1, FIA 8858-2002 or 88598-2010 is strongly recommended.

    All vehicles must meet the safety and equipment requirements of GCR 9.4. “Roll cages for GT and Production based cars” or Appendix I, “2007 Cage Rules”.

    The Chief Steward may waive deviations of compliance requirements for a car for an event.

    I have read and understand the terms and conditions of Appendix A and request to be included in the Club Racing Experience.

    Driver (signature): ______________________________________________

    Driver (printed): ______________________________________________

    Member Number: ______________________


    Date: ______________________






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    Tom Weaver: Logistics & Technical Support Manager IE truck driver for 1986 RX-7 ITS #63. "Diesel Haulin' Rotary" 2005 Dodge 2500 Quad Cab The Hemi has retired "Long Live the Hemi" Bill Weaver Driver- 2004 NYSRRC John Chave Award. 2006 & 2013 ITS NYSRRC Champion!. Truck Driver Named Glen Region Worker of the Year 2008.Located 45 miles southeast of Watkins Glen in Sayre PA.

  19. #19
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    Thanks for the full post Tom, but I did read all the rules before my rant.

    Thanks for the background explanation Dick.

    Here are the points I am hung up on:


    The wording error in the CRX must be fixed. In the first half it says the roll cage rules are EXCEPTED
    (read it again yourself), and at the very end it says they are NOT EXCEPTED.

    If this is as controlled as a normal racing school, I don't see enough difference between them...
    why not just waive the same safety requirements for the school participants if you think that is
    a primary barrier to new blood entry?

    If you deem these three safety items (physical, HNR, belt age) to be waiveable for new participants,
    then why not reduce the requirement on these three items for everyone? Having two levels of safety
    has two consequences:
    1. The new participant needs to "go through the hoops" eventually anyway
      .
    2. It opens the club to the risk of lawsuits based solely on "If the safety rules are necessary
      for everyone else, then why weren't they necessary for my injured client"


    I am all for eliminating the harness date expiration for everyone, allowing us all to self-certify
    medical, and allowing people to go back to their ISAACS or forgo an HNR if they want.

    .
    Last edited by lawtonglenn; 08-13-2013 at 10:20 AM.

    Glenn Lawton
    GSMmotorsports
    #14 ITS RX7
    NARRC ITS Champion 2012
    NERRC ITS Champion 2013 12 11 10 09 08
    NERRC STU Champion 2010

    __________________

  20. #20
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    Smile I think this is GREAT!

    I would never have become a racer without EMRA.
    EMRA's bar was a lot lower and they welcomed me to race my street car (AH Sprite)
    After cutting my teeth with EMRA, I looked around and realized that the upgrades to SCCA weren't going to be so hard.
    But without that middle step, I don't think I would have had the wherewithal
    to do it at that point in my life (24 years old/low income)
    phil hunt

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