Which car is more dominant?

[AE86ITA]

Hello everyone:
My question is (hope not to step on anyone's ego) On short twisty circuit lets say 1.5 miles or less (specifically where a higher ratio Final Drive is a must) which cars are more dominant.

Please specify Make, Year, Model



Thanks,

[Ed Funk]

What class?

[Greg Amy]

Miata. The answer is always Miata.

[Tom Blaney]

I think from prior experience, the 88-91 CRX-Si was very quick in the right hands on both short tracks like Lime Rock or twisty one like Nelsons UNTIL the comp board decided that 300lbs was a logical addition to the car.

Once that weight penalty was applied, all of the performance advantages (like brakes, neutral handling and power to weight) were invalidated and the Miata became the performance leader.

Too bad since now ITA is another Mazda class

[AE86ITA]

Actually wanted to know for IT-R, IT-S, IT-A and IT-B all within the same conditions, very short track (½mile straight) and twisty.

[AE86ITA]

I think from prior experience, the 88-91 CRX-Si was very quick in the right hands on both short tracks like Lime Rock or twisty one like Nelsons UNTIL the comp board decided that 300lbs was a logical addition to the car.

Once that weight penalty was applied, all of the performance advantages (like brakes, neutral handling and power to weight) were invalidated and the Miata became the performance leader.

Too bad since now ITA is another Mazda class

Tom, I don't understand, you mean that a CRX used to weight 1950Lbs with driver in ITA?

[gran racing]

There are multiple CRXs out there that did just fine and then some after the weight was added. Both Moslers, Ajah are three examples.

For ITB, I'd look at a Civic.

[ShelbyRacer]

My picks for the short and twisty tracks, talking out my a$$-

ITR- Z3 2.8L
ITS- Miata or 240Z
ITA- Miata, CRX Si (2nd gen), or (dare I say?) TR6
ITB- CRX Si (1st gen) or Suzuki Swift
ITC- CRX or Spridget

[Chip42]

ITC = a civic or CRX, pick one.
ITB = A3 golf, 1.8L (FP-DE) "BJ" protege
ITA = CRX Si, "NA" Miata, "DA" integra (though less so on tight tracks)
ITS = RX7, later "NB" Miata, and I think an EM1 Civic Si would be a good choice so long as you keep it on a tight track.
ITR = ???

[chuck baader]

I am somewhat prejudiced, but torque rules!! For ITA, BMW 325e.

[JeffYoung]

Twisty isn't enough. Momentum twisty? Miata, no question. Choppy, stop and go twisty? Torque car.

A: Torque car: 325e or Integra. Momentum: Miata or CRX.
S: Torque car: Mustang or 944S or Prelude. Momentum: RX7 or Miata (99).
R: I'd just get a developed E36 or 944S2 and be done with it for now. Too much work developing something else.

[Tom Blaney]

Jake, you might want to check your numbers, the Mosiers have not dominated in a while, and by event statistics, I suspect the CRX is not doing as well as it did (or was capable of) after the weight gain.

The idea here is that diversity is a good thing, what draws spectators to an event is a good mix of cars, not 25 lemmings all chasing each other around in a 12 car train.

I'm just saying..

[924Guy]

I still see the Moser car (Bob's old one IIRC) pretty dominant at its home, our local 1.4-mi track. Not really anything that can touch it with a decent driver...

So I'm gonna stick with the ol' CRX for ITA.

The Miata is pretty tough to touch in ITS IMO; the '44 is a tough beast to wrangle through the tight stuff.

Definitely agree with Civic or early CRX for ITC...

EDIT: To clarify, Joe's now moved up to Prod, both ITA cars were sold (and promptly crashed ) and I believe Bob may have retired...

[gran racing]

Jake, you might want to check your numbers, the Mosiers have not dominated in a while, and by event statistics, I suspect the CRX is not doing as well as it did (or was capable of) after the weight gain.

Jake hasn't posted here. All three CRXs were always right up front. People just are not gravitating to the CRX. It's an older car, parts supply including body pannels are getting harder to source, and so on. It's been proven that with a well-built CRX and a talented driver, it can run up front.

[Spinnetti]

Efrain, are you bailing out? In my History, CRX was very dominant. Throw a 5.38 in the Corolla and you will do ok though

[ShelbyRacer]

*In the hands of a truly talented driver*, I think low weight and short wheelbase (and RWD if available) will trump torque.

For a decent driver, torque can be a real help when "things happen". I guess that's why I drive a torque car.

Don't forget, good rear gear choice can mitigate some of the lack of torque, espcially on a track that doesn't require a lot of top speed.

[AE86ITA]

Efrain, are you bailing out? In my History, CRX was very dominant. Throw a 5.38 in the Corolla and you will do ok though

Hello Dave:
Not bailing yet. The second car is in progress and we located a 5.375 in Japan (Ouch $$$) and should be hitting the track by year's end. How about you and your beatuful AE86? Get some 14x6's and hit the track, with it's new (coming soon) weight(close to 2280LBS) it should make our cars front ITB runners.

I started this post since our local track are so short that most of the successful cars we read about on large tracks will not make sense here specially if there aren't tall final drives available.

Also we're trying to bring new blood to the track and want to help them invest on practical options.