Trying for Nationwide Crap Can class unity

[Flyinglizard]

Looks like the classes will also carry a tire size rule with the provision that some teams are over on tires and they may run in the next class. CCX will not have a max tire size.
All tires are treadwear 180 or higher. The top running cars are very well done and well driven. Lack of aero rules make for some nice splitters and wings, cut roofs etc.
The lap times are near SM and the top cars are ITR classed or near.
Many Chump teams will use the SCCA PDX,TT days as test days and driver coaching days. AS they do now. FWIW "Chin" gets around 4-5 Chumpcars each event. SCCA could benefit from the inclusion also,. both in the TT groups and race groups. Most Chump teams have at least one EX SCCA racer among them. WE want the EX part fixed..

SCCA has provisions to take these drivers with experience and hand them a novice permit, as it should be. Many have more track time and WTW time in 2 races as most SCCA drivers get n 4 yrs. 4- 8 hr per weekend is not unheard of. The new CRX thing is addressed to these drivers, and TT/race drivers from other sanctions.
The license thing is not my issue , as SCCA has moved to ease the deal anyway.

I will have a "final" provisional rule set in the next week and send it out to the regions, (post national lookssee.) Afew regions have said that they must go to the CRB first , but I dont read the GCR that way. Other than a few safety points, National has no interest or business in this mess.
We all want safety first of course.

[Flyinglizard]

Crap can rules, R5/13
The intent of these rule guidelines; Allow crapcans to cross over to SCCA with little hassle. The basic car should be able to be purchased for around 1000$
AS long as the car is deemed "safe" they should have a class under these rules. The Normal IT safety rules apply, master switch, brake lights. Most "crapcan" master switches are placed within driver reach, in the center of the car.
Three classes addresses one of the few shortcomings of Chumpcar,IMHO. A stable class structure may slow the speed creep and allow a car to remain competitive for more than a couple of years .
SCCA IT cars are legal and may run with the spec tires,@ IT weight.
Stock throttle body Production cars may be legal, with the spec tires, @ Prod weight..

CCU; 2.3 and under class , 225 max tire width

CCO; class(2.4 - 3.1) E 30 BMW -6 cyl , Honda products with V tec . E 30 must be stock and uncut.
245 max tire width

CrapCan-AM; Anything over 3.1, or a non stock power train,( swapped ,boosted etc )
All 6 cyl E 36. E 36 must be stock and uncut. No max tire size.

Non stock throttle body area; = 1 class bump

Any brakes within 1 in. OD of stock.

All tires; tread wear rating of 180 or higher. Any wheels.

IT fire bottle rules.

Stock tank or fuel cell allowed.
Fuel cell required if tank is less than 20in from rear bumper, IE; BMW 2002, C4 Corvette, etc.

IT cage rules are the minimum. Production Car cage rules encouraged. Any tubing allowed between the front and rear fire walls. Attachment to the sill/rockers are encouraged. Driver side wheel house bar recommended.

No tubing past the wheel hubs.
Some exceptions will occur, small short cars like the Honda, Miata, where the rear stays must go past the wheel hubs.

Open cars; must use arm restraints or some form of roof panel. Cars with no windshield, must use arm restraints.
Driver door must have window net.

Aero; unrestricted. Must be well attached.
3 in ground clearance rule, (includes all aero panels.)

Bodywork; Hood may be gutted and vented but must remain.
Interior Body panels may be lightened.
Trunks, hatches, roofs, may be removed or gutted.
Fenders , doors, rear quarter panels, may be modified but must remain.
Exterior driver door panels may be rolled down.
Glass may be removed. "Lexan" may be used throughout. GCR, Productions sizes.
Anything that can be removed per normal "Crapcan rules" , may be removed. (Everything).
Battery placement is open. must be safe secure and covered.

Nothing is cast in stone. Please reply with suggestions to improve these. And or oversight.
Thanks, Mike Ogren, [email protected]

[evanwebb]

Mike those rules are about 10% the size of the Chumpcar rules. It's very open and permissive, I think people could build some insane cars and meet these rules, and CrapCan-Am could be the fastest class in the SCCA. Is that really what is intended?

[Flyinglizard]

Evan, you're right. The E 36 must be uncut and stock throughout. The E30 must be stock and uncut.
The Chump rules have been weak at best. The E36 is the new standard. The Miata was the standard at the start.
We now have 30-40% of the cars are BMW. 80% of the podium cars are BMW.
Chump has 2 -3 swapped V6 MR2 second gen. rocket fast.
Saab 9-3 and 9-5 turbo.
Mercedes 2.5- 3.2 4 valve
Nissan Z32 roadster
The "Riley" team Mazda V6 roadster
Swapped Honda frankencars
Turbo VWs and Hondas
V8 RX7
Lexus V8
BMW E 30 swapped with M50
A few Chevy V8 Malibu ,Camaro, a couple of C4 Vetts.
Plenty of Mustangs V8s.
The cars are fast, the rules weak.

The never ending speed increase is why we have some interest for SCCA events with some sort of speed cap and classes. A good ITB car was top 5 on lap times where now it is bottom 30%lap times.

The Chump brake rule is 2X stock value. Really no rule at all. BMW calipers are more than Wilwood. The 1 in allows the same brakes with a hard number.

The other small SCCA conflict is the ERW cages that many Chump cars have. Most cage kits for RR or stock cars are ERW. Thus many early Chumpers are ERW tubing. Many "Autopower" cages are also ERW unless you get the upgrade. Chump allows a single pas door bar on paper, but I have never seen any.
Thanks for the input. MM

[dickita15]

Two things, first of all while SCCA racing tries to be Safe, Fun and Fair, I never figured that fair was the point of crap can racing. I think coming up with a simple class structure to make it a little more fair and posting it online so regions can adopt it at their discretion is a nice idea, but you will never make it totally fair without enough rules to fill a GCR. Hat okay it is supposed to be fun.
Second on your comments about licensing, using the alternate drivers school procedure drivers can be observed and signed off at non SCCA events. All you need is a willing SCCA instructor and a willing SCCA steward. Only the instructor has to attend the event.

[Spinnetti]

I'll fan the fire......

SCCA got to be out of touch due to too many rules, too little seat time, and too much money... Chump is catching up fast.... In the midwest, sounds like people are pouring money at the cars and making a demo derby of it (like IT in the NE?)....

Lemons has it more right, with more flexibility to build what you want (a huge draw for me) and the no contact rule is a big reason why. I feel less likely go get hit in Lemons than in IT (though I got nailed in the rain last year)

I've been in the SCCA since 87', and can't say the IT drivers are really any better than the walk-on bozos that come to Lemons - its more about our individual attitude and situational awareness IMO.

Regardless, my advice is: More enduros, and let the crapcans run. I wouldn't even class them or restrict beyond safety concerns. If they want micro-managed rules and classes, let them "graduate" to "real" club racing. I'd probably bring out my Lexus (LS400) in such circumstances to mid-west races.

[lateapex911]

I'll fan the fire......

SCCA got to be out of touch due to too many rules, too little seat time, and too much money... Chump is catching up fast.... In the midwest, sounds like people are pouring money at the cars and making a demo derby of it (like IT in the NE?)....

.

First, whats with the last snipe?

Second, it's far more complex that you boil it down to be. Whats scca supposed to do...REMOVE rules in FC? IT? Dump classes with subscribed populations because the rule book is thick?/
SCCA is a place to race...where the events are strictly run, and every attempt is made to create an even playing field. That is the kind of place that competitors want to race. But...not everyone can win. After a while, people get tired of not winning. Of trying hard, of spending the money, of spending tons of time, missing Mothers Day, kids soccer games (Which, these days, missing just one for a selfish act of working on the car/racing is grounds for divorce/world of hurt), and they stop, and think about ALL the costs, and the results vs guys like Gorrian, who POURS time and money at the sport, along with protests, and they think they might have a bad balance ...that the fun isn't there(winning), but the cost is.

So they decide, screw it, forget the highly competitive environment, and all the work/development/money, lets just go screw around and not worry about the competition as much.

And thats fine....it's just another facet of the diamond of performance driving. The pie is being divided up a bit, but it's growing. Marque clubs, constant HPDEs everywhere, lots of "pro" series for gentleman drivers to race in and get the desired TV coverage (at least until the budget or sugar daddy dries up), as well as Lemons and such, where the rules are in limbo, so nobody gets too far ahead.

Does SCCA need to change? Adapt? Yes, but it shouldn't lose sight of it's core customers, serious club racers who want well run fair competitions.