The Real STU (Super Turbo Über) Bitch thread

[Greg Amy]

That's fine James: if you really believe there needs to be a separate class, then please send your request to the CRB. I will not do it, as I do not believe it's the right answer.

But please do keep in mind that if the normally-aspirated cars are requesting a separate class from the turbo cars, it is the N/A cars that will be the spin-off class, not the turbo cars. The turbos (and those that wish to continue competing against the turbos) will stay within the existing STU class. The spin-off class - STNA? - will have to convince the membership and the CRB that first, a new class is warranted, and second, that this new class will bring the numbers for it be considered for National/Majors participation.

Or we can continue to move forward to do our best to level the playing field among the existing STU cars. Which is what we'll continue to do, barring any conflicting directives from the CRB.

- GA

[Rabbit07]

Still no letters in the system?

[Mrsideways]

What you have stated is mostly true.

At the Club Racing level we have no way to regulate boost. This requires a tech staff that can record and review data.

The TIR is a restriction in Airflow, so yes you can estimate the power output of a given engine with a TIR installed. I personally have dyno'd different combinations of Turbo Cars with TIR's and the FIA TIR chart is quite accurate in it's assumptions of Horse Power. This really is only the Peak Horse Power Number. Peak Torque still varies from Engine/Turbo combo to Engine/Turbo combo.

This is where the STAC and CRB have been working at sneaking up on the proper TIR/Weight. Torque is the variable that continues to change the curve on how well these packages perform on track. What hasn't been talked much about is that there are currently "SOME" Turbo Cars that perform well, and "SOME OTHERS" that do not. As we get closer to the ideal TIR/Weight this will become even more evident. Then the job will be to match the Best NA to the Best Boosted package. My personal opinion is that we are closer than most believe.

Let em have the Torque, Just give them no way to use it....... Smaller tires, Non-LSD diffs, factory gearing only, mandate tiny intercoolers so they battle Intake temps, etc etc. It's kinda cruel but you can have your cake you just get your hands tied behind your back when it comes to eating it.

[Matt93SE]

Let em have the Torque, Just give them no way to use it....... Smaller tires, Non-LSD diffs, factory gearing only, mandate tiny intercoolers so they battle Intake temps, etc etc. It's kinda cruel but you can have your cake you just get your hands tied behind your back when it comes to eating it.

Hell, I'm spinning the crap out of my 225s right now with 160hp.. I can't imagine trying to put 400lb of tq to the ground with your idea!

hmmmmmmm..... :026:

[Mrsideways]

Hell, I'm spinning the crap out of my 225s right now with 160hp.. I can't imagine trying to put 400lb of tq to the ground with your idea!

hmmmmmmm..... :026:

I was 99% joking. However the big complaint is that the Torque of the turbo's get them out of the corner much better then their N/A counter parts. Because a Turbo car can make a lot more average power. So my point was to make it equal take away their ability to put the power down on corner exit. Make all the power you want... it's just more wheel spin, limit the cars acceleration in ways other then engine. If you can't police Boost, then police tire/wheel size and maybe even compound. That's easy. An interesting way of equalizing this is varying Wheel width by weight, FWD, AWD and RWD and Turbo cars gotta run 1 inch narrower across the board. Would be funny to see a 300whp Evo at 4000+ lbs running around on 6 inch wide wheels.

So you say your spinning the crap out of your tires, just imagine an AWD car has the same size restrictor and NO issue with wheel spin. Yep that's fair, now put yourself in a FWD car with your power level... Even more impossible.

[Greg Amy]

You guys know we limited STU tire size this year to 245, right...? 225 for STL.

[Mrsideways]

You guys know we limited STU tire size this year to 245, right...? 225 for STL.

That's still a healthy amount of tire. But I was thinking being a little more bias and separating out tire size or wheel size by vehicle layout weight, and type of aspiration. Because a a 245 on a N/A FWD civic is a lot of tire where a 245 on a #3400 car isn't very much tire. And It would be easier to do the Bias Including wheel width.

[Greg Amy]

But a 245 tire on a FWD civic might be getting pulled by a 2.4L engine (more likely a 1.8-2L), whereas a 245 tire on a 3400# BMW is probably getting propelled by a 3.2L S54 (or whatever that thing is).

Kinda sounds like a nice balance me...

- GA

[JS154]

That's still a healthy amount of tire. But I was thinking being a little more bias and separating out tire size or wheel size by vehicle layout weight, and type of aspiration. Because a a 245 on a N/A FWD civic is a lot of tire where a 245 on a #3400 car isn't very much tire. And It would be easier to do the Bias Including wheel width.

A letter was submitted a year ago proposing restricing tire size for FI and AWD FI cars. It was not approved at the time.

fast forward one year, tire sizes have been reduced for all cars to max 245 width.

TIR sizes have been reduced. At the rate we are going, it appears to me it will be another few years before we see the turbo cars balanced with the NA cars.

I don't ever see ST split into NA and FI classes, and even if it were to happen, it would take so long that ST would just be Super Turbo anyways, not that it isn't now.

The FI cars got rewarded with some weight and TIR adjustments at the end of last year and have already gone faster than the year before at the first races of the season.

The fastest NA cars - Irish Mike's TecMark E46, Joe's Tripoint mazdaSpeed 6, The RealTime TSX and my M3 - are built to the limit of the rules. How many of the turbo cars, with the exception of Joel's STaSIS A4 have been built to the limit? You think there might be enough room left to outbuild any annual restrictor adjustment?

[JS154]

Whoa, settle down there friend....Greg and Chris and co. are volunteers trying to do a hard job, dealing with membership and the CRB.

Letters do "do dick" and start the ball rolling. Write one and I'm sure these guys will give it fair consideration. You guys in ST are lucky to have a good committee right now, that really cares about the class and is willing to come here to discuss it.

THIS group of jokers? haha NFW. That's funny. ;-) Lookin' pretty sketchy to me I say...

Left to right that's Chris tilting his head saying, aw c'mon you can;t really be serious that you think the turbos are that much faster, Greg hiding behind us with a smug look on his face saying "HAHA, I out-worded you again!" and me with a mysteriously pleasant smile after having gotten good hard fvxkng from the turbos.

Or something like that.

[Rabbit07]

THIS group of jokers? haha NFW. That's funny. ;-) Lookin' pretty sketchy to me I say...

Left to right that's Chris tilting his head saying, aw c'mon you can;t really be serious that you think the turbos are that much faster, Greg hiding behind us with a smug look on his face saying "HAHA, I out-worded you again!" and me with a mysteriously pleasant smile after having gotten good hard fvxkng from the turbos.

Or something like that.

F'n bloody hell!

[Z3_GoCar]

Still no letters in the system?

I've got bigger fish to fry this year. In two more weeks I'll know if I get furloghed or not. As it sits now, I'm even dialing back on working F&C. 22 furlogh days means I won't have a budget for anything other than paying my mortgage and property taxes.

F'n bloody hell!

That's exactly my sentiments too...

[CRallo]

Sounds a little bit like the discussions going on about GT2 this year...