February 2013 Fastrack

[gran racing]

Is that what the plan is Greg? Haven't been closely following it but do know of the majors effort.

[Greg Amy]

Is that what the plan is Greg? Haven't been closely following it but do know of the majors effort.

Aye-yup. 2013 is a transition year, so ignore it. But starting in 2014 Nationals go away and you can qualify for the Runoffs either through the Majors Tour(s) and/or through local Regional events.

http://www.scca.com/events/news.cfm?eid=5364&cid=51181

- GA

[Flyinglizard]

The National/Regional distinction is supposed to go away 2014.
The Majors will be the heavy point builders.

Sorry R 2. There are quite a few like you and I.
Ira, Fletcher, etc. I dont mean to take away from your efforts/success, at all. Being able to build and drive a car is becoming a lost art. Well done.

The 500-600$ entry fees, along with the fri schedule, reduce the market potential. IMHO.

[DavidM]

The Majors (still a horrible name) program isn't the whole solution IMO. It addresses the issue of Regions needing to have separate national and regional weekends. Theoretically there are now just race race weekends, but I'm still curious as to how the schedule plays out next year. The issue not addressed is the classes themselves. It's been discussed many times, but more is not necessarily better. If you want to be a class of one then you can race, but don't expect to go to the Runoffs. Classes for the Runoffs should be determined by participation numbers, plain and simple. Any class in the GCR should be Runoffs eligible. Coincidentally, IT is listed in the GCR. If it's a regional class, why is it in the GCR?

I still don't think IT would be a whole lot different if it we're Runoffs eligible. In 2014 there's no more such thing as National races so everybody races in the same IT races no matter if you want to go to the Runoffs or not. Maybe some of the top guys would go race at Majors weekends. Maybe more people come to race in IT and what it takes to be at the top increases some. I don't see either of those as all that bad.

As for the CRB, they have outlived their usefulness in their current guise. They should be disbanded or the charter re-written. And CRB members should be elected if it remains.

David

[Bill Miller]

The Majors (still a horrible name) program isn't the whole solution IMO. It addresses the issue of Regions needing to have separate national and regional weekends. Theoretically there are now just race race weekends, but I'm still curious as to how the schedule plays out next year. The issue not addressed is the classes themselves. It's been discussed many times, but more is not necessarily better. If you want to be a class of one then you can race, but don't expect to go to the Runoffs. Classes for the Runoffs should be determined by participation numbers, plain and simple. Any class in the GCR should be Runoffs eligible. Coincidentally, IT is listed in the GCR. If it's a regional class, why is it in the GCR?

I still don't think IT would be a whole lot different if it we're Runoffs eligible. In 2014 there's no more such thing as National races so everybody races in the same IT races no matter if you want to go to the Runoffs or not. Maybe some of the top guys would go race at Majors weekends. Maybe more people come to race in IT and what it takes to be at the top increases some. I don't see either of those as all that bad.

As for the CRB, they have outlived their usefulness in their current guise. They should be disbanded or the charter re-written. And CRB members should be elected if it remains.

David

You mean you want a group that makes decisions that affect the members to be, well, you know, accountable to those members?

Hubberbucket!

Seriously David, I pretty much agree with everything you said.

[Greg Amy]

CRB members are elected -- by the Board of Directors. And, as I pointed out, BoD are elected directly by the membership. That would be...you? Ergo, all of the above are accountable to the membership, either directly or indirectly.

All you need to do is contact your Board of Directors representative that you elected in order to make yourself heard. It's really not that difficult to understand. Seriously, it's not.

Have either of you two guys even remotely attempted to contact your BoD rep to voice your displeasure? Or is it more satisfying to stomp your feet all over the Internet bitching, hoping in some odd way that they'll chase each of you down to ask you for your valued opinion...? Their contact info is easily available on scca.com after you login with your membership credentials...need a link?

GA

[kevin22]

For the reason of getting the national contingency we should all be pushing for national status

[gran racing]

Contingency is great if you have the money to invest in the car and the talent to actually see any of it. That bar would be raised with newly added rabbits to chase.

[Bill Miller]

CRB members are elected -- by the Board of Directors. And, as I pointed out, BoD are elected directly by the membership. That would be...you? Ergo, all of the above are accountable to the membership, either directly or indirectly.

All you need to do is contact your Board of Directors representative that you elected in order to make yourself heard. It's really not that difficult to understand. Seriously, it's not.

Have either of you two guys even remotely attempted to contact your BoD rep to voice your displeasure? Or is it more satisfying to stomp your feet all over the Internet bitching, hoping in some odd way that they'll chase each of you down to ask you for your valued opinion...? Their contact info is easily available on scca.com after you login with your membership credentials...need a link?

GA

With all due respect Greg, the CRB members are appointed by the BoD, not 'elected'. I'll let Kirk speak to the dynamic of decision makers that are insulated from, and do not have direct accountability to, the group that their decisions impact, as he is infinitely more qualified than I am to speak on that topic. Not to mention that the BoD has a lot more to deal with than just Club Racing (granted, it's probably the lion's share of what they deal with).

[Greg Amy]

Ok, Bill, fine, though I'm sure the BoD takes a poll internally ("voting", e.g., "election") to decide if someone gets an appointment.

At this point, I'm done giving a rat's patootie with what you think about the whole process. It's obvious to everyone (that is still reading your posts) that you're dissatisfied. Please contact your BoD rep for further rat's patootie-giving.

- GA

[Bill Miller]

Ok, Bill, fine, though I'm sure the BoD takes a poll internally ("voting", e.g., "election") to decide if someone gets an appointment.

At this point, I'm done giving a rat's patootie with what you think about the whole process. It's obvious to everyone (that is still reading your posts) that you're dissatisfied. Please contact your BoD rep for further rat's patootie-giving.

- GA

I'm not sure why you're getting all wound up about it Greg. Maybe you need to take a step back. I've noticed that a lot of your posts in this thread (not just the ones directed at me) are a bit on the acerbic and snide side. Or maybe that's just part of your immutable charm?

[R2 Racing]

Contingency is great if you have the money to invest in the car and the talent to actually see any of it. That bar would be raised with newly added rabbits to chase.

So....having just the possibility of taking home some cash/stuff, and increasing the overall ability and competitiveness in your class......is a bad thing? Does not compute.

I've seen statements like this on several occasions and each time I think the following:

Current situation - insert as much time, money, and talent into your racecar as you have to offer. Maybe get a podium finish every now and then, finish where you deserve to, relative to your competition. Don't win any contingencies, because there are none. Know full well that it is possible to be faster if someone had more time, money, and/or talent than you, but these people aren't here, so I'm on the podium.

Possible new situation - Insert as much time, money, and talent into your racecar as you have to offer (same as before). Most likely finish in the 4-6th range, but occasionally get a podium finish every now and then (maybe not as high as before, but still finishing where you deserve, relative to your competition). Collect contingency when you do get on that podium, don't collect if you don't (i.e. at worst, it's no different than it was before). Confirm that it is possible to be faster if someone had more time, money, and/or talent than you (again, not really any different). Or just maybe, you surprise yourself, and learn that you still stack up pretty damn good, even against those that you thought maybe had more time, money, and/or talent than you...

When I spell it out like that, if I go with "possible new situation", I can do pretty much nothing at all differently from what I was doing, and now actually have ANY possibility of getting contingencies (verses zero), and race against a deeper and more competitive field. I just don't get how people think that's a bad thing.

But, I've also seen people CHOOSE to build/buy something like an IT7, because it pretty much guarantees that they'll finish in the top 3 at any event, and the look on their faces and the pride they feel when they pick up their 3rd place trophy, from a field of 4. Nope, I don't get that either.

[gran racing]

I think that depending up the class ($$ typically spent on racecars), that the drivers who finish towards the front are going to get even faster by winning various items. I know it has impacted me on both sides. The guys who are winning get even fresher rubber than they would have before, which makes it harder for guys a bit further back to keep up with the Joneses. Maybe this thought process is inaccurate, but at least in the levels I've looked at seems to be the case.

In classes where there are already gobs of money (SM national / Majors), the above probably doesn't come into play nearly as much.

[Flyinglizard]

As soon as money is on the table, all those little IT rules, that are overlooked when racing for fun, will be the bitch point in impound.
As it is now you race for fun, as it should be.

[lateapex911]

As soon as money is on the table, all those little IT rules, that are overlooked when racing for fun, will be the bitch point in impound.
As it is now you race for fun, as it should be.

what rules are being overlooked???

I know that I saw some bs down south in Atlanta at the ARRCs that wouldn't fly up here, but I'm interested in your examples.

[Andy Bettencourt]

As soon as money is on the table, all those little IT rules, that are overlooked when racing for fun, will be the bitch point in impound.
As it is now you race for fun, as it should be.

Which is TOTALLY fine. If you want to run the big show, then get your shit in order. No problems.

[Bill Miller]

As soon as money is on the table, all those little IT rules, that are overlooked when racing for fun, will be the bitch point in impound.
As it is now you race for fun, as it should be.

So people in IT don't care about rules? Nobody that runs Nationals has ever been DQ'd for being illegal?

Seriously, just because IT is Regional-only doesn't make it any less subject to the rules, or the people that run IT any less concerned about the rules. Your comment is disingenuous at best, and smacks of the underlying attitude that the CRB has about IT.

[Chip42]

it's common at the regional level to overlook things that are illegal but irrelevant, particularly in the FL region (south FL) where many guys run other series with slightly different rules (and some who just don't give 2 shits about all that reading and bolt on what "looks right." I'm looking at you, Mr. Mincy). The front runners in IT in FL/CFR run to the rules, but back in the pack it's not always the case.

As Andy and Jake said - you run the big show, you get your shit in order. not a problem for the guys who would actually be contending for points.

[Bill Miller]

it's common at the regional level to overlook things that are illegal but irrelevant, particularly in the FL region (south FL) where many guys run other series with slightly different rules (and some who just don't give 2 shits about all that reading and bolt on what "looks right." I'm looking at you, Mr. Mincy). The front runners in IT in FL/CFR run to the rules, but back in the pack it's not always the case.

As Andy and Jake said - you run the big show, you get your shit in order. not a problem for the guys who would actually be contending for points.

But I'd say that's probably the case w/ mid/tail pack National cars regardless. They're not going to post-race tech, and they're probably not going to the Runoffs, so nobody cares. It's really all about who is running at the pointy end of the field, regardless of where they run. Seriously when was the last time you saw an 8th place finisher protest the 7th place finisher on rules compliance of their car? And I don't think there is the time luxury to tech them for the heck of it.

[Flyinglizard]

Anti Heat sheeting, shifter bushings,weather rubber, hood fit, door fit, taping the windshield,wiper arms moved or missing, alt working, low flow water pump,.