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Thread: A fresh look...

  1. #21
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    yup, I was wrong. was on the illegal chassis list earlier this year, I guess I didn't notice or forgot that they allowed it.

  2. #22
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    I've done some poking around on the Elan. Double wishbone, pretty damn awesome stock suspension. VEry short wheelbase, very good aero (factory hardtop available).

    The N/A 1.6 Isuzu motor made 130 hp stock. Not much build data out there on it, but I talked to a local Mazda four cylinder guy and he thought it ought to do as least as well as the Mazda and Honda 1.6s.

    I think the car has a chance if someone spends the money on it. Great basic suspension design, good aero, short wb, decent power/torque, lightweight.

    You can get a decent car for 10k. I bet you spend another 30-40k making it nationally competitive though.
    NC Region
    1980 ITS Triumph TR8

  3. #23
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    and, being a lotus, you could drop in other more common lotus power plants, such as the 2ZZ-GE toyota that keeps popping up.

    you could possibly argue an allowance to use the next gen version of the Isuzu 4XE1 motor which was sold in the JDM gemini coupe or piazza/USDM storm GSi/USDM impulse (canada got some too). these would be much more common than the loti. I say possibly because the swap rules with mixed marques/badges are a mess.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip42 View Post
    and, being a lotus, you could drop in other more common lotus power plants, such as the 2ZZ-GE toyota that keeps popping up.

    you could possibly argue an allowance to use the next gen version of the Isuzu 4XE1 motor which was sold in the JDM gemini coupe or piazza/USDM storm GSi/USDM impulse (canada got some too). these would be much more common than the loti. I say possibly because the swap rules with mixed marques/badges are a mess.
    I don't think you can. Read the STL engine swap rule. You can use any engine by the chassis manufacturer. Lotus didn't make the 2zz, Toyota did. The Lotus 2.2s are too big for STL.

    I don't see a rule allowing other engines by the engine manufacturer, so the other Isuzu engines are out.
    NC Region
    1980 ITS Triumph TR8

  5. #25
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    right, because the elise is forbidden. more and more the mantra seems to be:

    build honda, win, have beer.

    though runoffs results would disagree.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip42 View Post
    and, being a lotus, you could drop in other more common lotus power plants, such as the 2ZZ-GE toyota that keeps popping up.

    you could possibly argue an allowance to use the next gen version of the Isuzu 4XE1 motor which was sold in the JDM gemini coupe or piazza/USDM storm GSi/USDM impulse (canada got some too). these would be much more common than the loti. I say possibly because the swap rules with mixed marques/badges are a mess.
    I don't think you want the 1.8. It's a better motor stock than the 1.6, but there's a lot of unique parts for them and Isuzu doesn't sell a lot of them anymore. Rod bearing are one example. So you'd have to buy a lot of spare motors. Even then, the head is no different aside from hydraulic lifters and the block is an inch or so taller to accommodate the additional stroke.

  7. #27
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    despite the obviousness of building one of the many discussed honda variants, I haven't seen many out there. today at sebring the2013 opener Majors/national/BFG super tour "Big F'n Deal" weekend had only crossover IT miatas, RX7s, and Peter K's integra (which is a real STL car but not a monster build as far as I know). PK ran strong but Andrew "Von C" Charbaneau won in an ISC miata (ITS car). I expected more real STL cars, and Jim Drago to place higher - though to be fair he had his SM car doing double duty, not the purpose built STL car.

    I'm really liking the idea of a 20V 4AGE toyota in an MR2 spyder. assuming they allowed the engine, that could be a really hot setup.

  8. #28
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    Yep. Definitely some cool options for the class but I'd still look at building a B16 powered CRX.
    Christian in FL | Something white with Honda on the valve cover...
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  9. #29
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    several of us are dude....haha

  10. #30
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    I'll preface this by saying that I have not read through the STL rules, so I don't know all the ins and outs. I'm curious as to why the folks looking at Toyota mills are not looking at the 4A-GE. Are the STL prep limits that restrictive to get sufficient power out of one? And it's too bad the AE86 Corolla is too old, as that seems like it would be a great STL car.

  11. #31
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    Bill, the "big port" 4A-GE suffers from it's restrictive intake, the small port less so, but both have poor port design no matter what class you put it in. while the 4A motors share many nominal dimensions with the honda B16, preppared to the STL limits of cam lift and compression the 16V 4AGE would still make roughly 15-20% less power than the honda. the 20V 4AGE has a much better head design despite the complexity of the extra valves, and can get into B16 specific output territory.

    gotta shoot for the target.

  12. #32
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    Thanks Chip. Like I said, I haven't read up on the STL rules.

    What's a realistic power expectation for an STL B16A?

  13. #33
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    roughly 180 crank is what I'd imagine... hell we got about that much in ITS without trying too hard. I'd think guys like Blake could massage even more from it, though the B16 is pretty much right on the STL max as delivered for lift and CR, the cam profile may be changed and there's all the ignition and ECU mods that you can do so there's probobly a bit more in there.

  14. #34
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    don't forget about .040 overbore, crank pulley, AC/PS delete, forged pistons, value springs, possible VTEC delete and other legal STL tricks. I would *hope* 175+ at the wheels. Others have mentioned 185whp, yet no one will know until someone builds it and show us the dyno sheet from a trusted source.
    Last edited by mossaidis; 01-09-2013 at 11:12 AM.
    Demetrius Mossaidis aka 'Mickey' #12 ITA NESCCA
    '92 Honda Civic Si
    STFU and "Then write a letter. www.crbscca.com"
    2013 ITA NARRC Champion and I have not raced since.

  15. #35
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    Excuse my hi-jacking but with all this talk of building the Honda B16 I have that drive train in my 99 (ex-SSC) Si and I would be willing to sell the motor & trans. Located in northern Indiana

  16. #36
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    miles on the motor?
    Demetrius Mossaidis aka 'Mickey' #12 ITA NESCCA
    '92 Honda Civic Si
    STFU and "Then write a letter. www.crbscca.com"
    2013 ITA NARRC Champion and I have not raced since.

  17. #37
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    My Civic is a showroom stock car & did not see any street miles, I will check the log book to see how many events are on it.
    No races the last two years as the car sat out while I campaigned an STU car



    click this pic for a larger view

  18. #38
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    The engine had a complete rebuild in 9/05 ( I have the receipt )
    18 races over the next 5 years with just one race in 2010
    Autocrossed 4 times summer of 2012, engine runs great and has very good power
    I have a new clutch that goes with it

    Im thinking $2000 for a complete swap USDM eng/trans/ECU/linkage or $1200 for just the engine

  19. #39
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    Where in northern indiana are you? A buddy might be interested. I'm on the border south of Chicago

  20. #40
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    South bend, IN. so just a straight shot east on I80, about an hour from the Ill state line. Pm if you want to take a look at it

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