Turkey Trot ITB winner?

[Flyinglizard]

What car came out and ran 2:43 on a slow track??

[JeffYoung]

Maybe not so slow? ITA record dropped 2 seconds I heard.

[spawpoet]

Maybe not so slow? ITA record dropped 2 seconds I heard.

Yup. A 2:35 in an ITA car is sick fast at Sebring. For measure that's where the top ITS cars run on a fast weekend normally.

[ECR]

Mr Ogren:
I am the builder of the winning car,and also of the other two yellow golfs, which have unfotunately left the team. However, that being said, in our hands, these cars ran consintently in the 43's.
On this particular weekend, however, the holder of the 2'43 was the black Mazda Protege'. However, the top result, as has been mostly the norm, went to the LRM/RSR, Lubro-Moly, G-Techniq, Powered by Haggis VW GTI, piloted by Paul W Ronie.

Rgds, David Leira

[Flyinglizard]

Hey David,
What is the year /model weight of the Mazda?
Well done at that lap time. The car looked very good .

I thought that Paul ran second @ around 2:45 (pretty much a standard fast time for him in the Mk 2).
Thanks,MM

[Chip42]

http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=858693
mylaps is your friend.

2:43.779 was set by a 99-00 mazda protege ES 1.8L (FP-DE), weights 2645 lbs. driven by Chi in the AM (P1) and Jason in the PM (P2). yes, it is fast.

paul ronie ran 45's (P2 AM, P1 PM). A2 GTI

AM P3 was Steve Ulbrick (blue TrackSpeed MR2, best = 2:47.263)
PM P3 was Normal Fuller (greenish GTI, best = 2:46.255)

for comparison, Deuce, in the 6 timed laps he ran all weekend after missing saturday and breaking in both race sessions, starting in the rear for both, ran a 2:44.643. Deuce's track record, set 2/12/12 is a 2:42.391, running at the now correct 2550 lbs.

the track isn't slower.

[manny]

i wonder on the legality of the cars, thats just what i heard

[Chip42]

which ones? I'm curious.

[ECR]

Manny;

if wondering on the legality of cars, specify which.
The two veteran yellow golfs have run all over the SEDIV for over a decade, have been previously inspected, and found to be squeaky clean, all the while winning championships.
The new yellow golf was built by the same dastardly duo to the same spec.

[manny]

First i must say that i DO NOT concern myself with matters like this. All i am saying is that on my way to the mens room i over heard some races talking about the legality of some cars in group 7. I joined this sport because i LOVE racing and i LOVE the tracks we race at and i LOVE the people i get to meet at these events. If some one is illegal then do what you feel is right. For me i will still be racing and meeting all of you some day. With kids in college im going as fast as i can lol. Lets be safe and enjoy what we do.

[Chip42]

of the 50 some cars in that group, I'm not suprised someone would be accused of cheating. I know the front runners in all of the classes pretty well, and ITB in particular, and I don't think anyone is cheating - maybe a small and effectively irrelevant infraction here and there, but nothing like a cheater cam, oversized wheels, reset timing, overcompression, etc...

I find cheating is much more common in the back of the pack than at the pointy end. because no one cares if you cheat and still go slow.

[ShelbyRacer]

First i must say that i DO NOT concern myself with matters like this. All i am saying is that on my way to the mens room i over heard some races talking about the legality of some cars in group 7. I joined this sport because i LOVE racing and i LOVE the tracks we race at and i LOVE the people i get to meet at these events. If some one is illegal then do what you feel is right. For me i will still be racing and meeting all of you some day. With kids in college im going as fast as i can lol. Lets be safe and enjoy what we do.

The problem with this (legality notwithstanding), is that this is how this stuff starts. Someone overheard someone else say something, or perhaps just ask a question. Then it gets brought up here or some other place. Soon, people are saying that something *must* be true because that heard x# of people talking about it 3 different places. In the end, it all stemmed not only from one person shooting their mouth off, but from others choosing to perpetuate it.

If you (and this is not just you Manny) have a specific concern, address it to the competitor, the officials, or your priest/lawyer (privileged info and all). If you saw something with your own eyes and want to discuss the legality, keep any identifying info completely out of the picture.

I'm sorry for coming off like I'm pissed about this (actually, I'm sitting here typing it very calmly), but I get very frustrated when someone spends a lot of time, money, and effort, and gets it all together and achieves, and suddenly there are people who are "innocently asking, not accusing anyone" about the situation. If you truly don't concern yourself with this, why bring it up?

And yes, it has been a frustrating day, dealing with several middle school students doing exactly the same thing ( "I don't like to spread rumors, but..." and the like), so yeah, I'm probably a little oversensitive. I fully expect that when I finally get my first win in ITB (though I have a 2nd in STU at a National...) that I'll have to withstand this as well. Luckily, I don't think I'll have to deal with that situation any time soon- (damn MARRS ITB racers and their talent).

[manny]

My final word on this crap is nothing. Speaking for myself i did learn from some other racers there this week end that paying close attention to detail in tuning does get your car running faster, thank you fellow ITB'ers. Till we meet again be safe have fun and see you at the track

[Flyinglizard]

It is interesting that a fresh drop from ITA can add a couple hundred pounds and go just as fast as they went in ITA trim. And kick ITB ass.
That is a shame in itself that the benchmark of 2:45 in the Mk 2 is second place. The last time I went 2:45 and lost , Paul went 244.. in my draft.
That is some serious power from the Miata 1.8 tugging 2600# IMHO.
I never said that it was illegal just that the power seems very strong. Well done.
What can be better than the Miata power?, It needs about 6-8 hp more than the Sm, 1.8 miata.
Header, compression,late cam timing, better ECU, airbox, AFM can be opened .
What else can be improved? maybe all that stuff can yield 10HP.

As far as the track , I use drivers with known good value, Peyson was off by 2sec, we were off 1sec. The air density was pretty good. 2000 -2500ft @ 1:00 .(MOL)
The current data shows 86-8mph in T1. used tobe 92-3ish, same car weight tires. We found a little elsewhere.
Not a big deal as we are running Prod with the IT engine still. Maybe over the winter Mike will pull the head and up the compression, add the proper header and pipes, delete the alt,lighten the flywheel and look for the other 3 sec.

[Chip42]

I hate repeating this constantly... the ITB 1.8L protege engine is an "FP", the miata/ITA 95-98 1.8L protege/Escort GT/kia sephia is a "BP" albeit different flavors of the motor depending on the application.

they are similar, in some ways very much so, but they are NOT the same engine. if you look at just the cam specs you will see that. the FP has less duration, less lift, and less overlap than either the 95-96 or the 97-98 BP protege cams. there are more differences I could go in to.

At 122hp, the 99-00 protege 1.8L IS one of the highest OEM hp car processed in ITB*, and it's processed with a 30% gain, making it one of the heaviest cars in the class, too. in ITA, the same car would be 2170 @25% or 2255 @30% (assuming this value is defensible in the first place). The car went to B at 2645, and it's been there for years now.

we are looking at ITB, in some part because there really are fair questions about the current balance of the class, but mostly because of the hodgepodge of classing methodologies, rating methods, technologies, etc... in there. we don't have our conclusions yet.

*There are some higher OEM hp cars, like the Geo Storm GSi, but most of them are from the old days and we're looking at them along with everything else in the class right now.

[Flyinglizard]

Chip, Thanks for the clarification. Do the cams interchange?

[Chip42]

Chip, Thanks for the clarification. Do the cams interchange?

don't go there

[D. Ellis-Brown]

As an ITB competitor in CFR,(who did not attend the Turkey Trot) ...... Yes there are some very fast cars in ITB, they are well prepared, and some are extremely well driven..... Chi Ho (who shares the car with Jason) is a damn good driver, I have driven against him on several occasions, and he is just very capable and gets the most out of his car. He was faster than Jason, in the same car. Paul Ronie and Deuce Keene, (a 2 or 3 time ARRC champion), have amazing consistency in their lap times, each have well prepared cars and should always be expected to be fast. There were some 15 ITB cars running, and the track in 3.5+ miles around, with 17 turns. There are alot of places to screw up and alot of traffic, plus the track is rough... and at times can be very intimidating if you are not at the top of your game. To see an ITB car run in 2:44's or 2:45's has been the norm for the last 3 years. And even faster if they are running with ITA or ITS cars and be able to pull a draft. Similar as we have done at Daytona.

David Ellis-Brown