Contact impound

[BruceG]

Damm...

Mickey is going to get writer's cramp...

Abhi

Who will break up the fight in the "impound compound" when all the parties arrive at the same time to fill out the form?

[Terry Hanushek]

Dick

There was an interesting discussion this weekend during the Ne Div convention. Apparently Nasa has something at events called Contact Impound designed to make drivers accountable for metal to metal contact. The suggestion that evolved was to have an area in the impound are that if you have any metal to metal contact at the end of a session you need to stop briefly and fill out a short form describing the situation. No interrogation but just a brief what happen, who was at fault in your opinion and was it a big deal. After you turned in your form you would be free to leave.
Would you guys view this as a positive thing?

Very interesting subject ... and great responses.

I have looked at this concept during this year and had already made a decision to implement a process of this nature at all TreadZone Pro IT events next year. My plan is to have standard SCCA witness statements available from our staff and Tech. Everybody involved with car to car contact (regardless of perceived 'fault') will be required to make a statement describing the incident. As much as possible, collaboration will be encouraged to fully understand / explain the contact.

Aside from the 'deterrence' effect of additional paperwork , I expect two benefits from this policy. First, it will certainly encourage drivers to discuss their contact, hopefully lessening lingering resentment / protests resulting from a lack of communication. The second obvious benefit is that it will give me a ready 'database' of incidents so that I can quickly identify and react to significant problems without chasing lesser matters across the paddock. All contacts will be a matter of record to track trends and tendencies.

I'm looking for this experiment with a small subset (Pro IT) to give us insights into the process and resulting benefits.

See ya at the races

Terry

[StephenB]

I think it is a good/great idea. I have always thought impound all was good for this same reason, so that drivers can talk it out without seeking eachother out.

I think this should be a regional only thing and not sent to National. National has enough to take care of and I would rather that our local regions, whom participate with us, absorb the information. To be fair the SM guys will most likely have more written than other drivers (Just based on participation counts). I would rather that info be kept to the regions that understand that and SEE it rather than someone sitting behind a desk 1000miles away.

Still though I think it is a great idea! I know we already have a black book here in our region and this would be a great way to improve on that process that we already have.

Stephen

[dickita15]

Dick



Very interesting subject ... and great responses.

I have looked at this concept during this year and had already made a decision to implement a process of this nature at all TreadZone Pro IT events next year. My plan is to have standard SCCA witness statements available from our staff and Tech. Everybody involved with car to car contact (regardless of perceived 'fault') will be required to make a statement describing the incident. As much as possible, collaboration will be encouraged to fully understand / explain the contact.

Aside from the 'deterrence' effect of additional paperwork , I expect two benefits from this policy. First, it will certainly encourage drivers to discuss their contact, hopefully lessening lingering resentment / protests resulting from a lack of communication. The second obvious benefit is that it will give me a ready 'database' of incidents so that I can quickly identify and react to significant problems without chasing lesser matters across the paddock. All contacts will be a matter of record to track trends and tendencies.

I'm looking for this experiment with a small subset (Pro IT) to give us insights into the process and resulting benefits.

See ya at the races

Terry

We were talking about it on the way home and after the responses on this thread I see no reason not to try it. NHMS is easy, LRP may be hard because of space requirements. I think we are going to try an easier form than the standard one, you know one a driver could do in crayon.

[rthiele]

My only concern is that sometimes it takes a breather after something happens. If you force to document things immediately when emotions are still high, it may cement uncompromising positions that may otherwise look different after a paddock conversation and views and advice from other people later.
Like the idea of better documenting repeat offenders though.

[Dano77]

Great Idea with pre printed names on them Its spelled Sheppard 77 IT-7 Black.

Just so everyone knows I do really like the idea. And yes, Make it crayola easy for us.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Absolutely.

+ 1.

It would facilitate 'discussion' as well...sometimes better left until cooler heads prevailed, sometimes better to discuss right away,

[ner88]

Although cool down time may be good, more often drivers never get to talk about what happen or nothing gets done.
At the two NASA events I attended, the Miata guys had the least amount of paper....It was the bigbore guys doing all the writing!

[raffaelli]

I like this idea.

I suggest that they be submitted after a cool down period. I assume that these will be used as evidence should there be a protest and to track a pattern of behavior. The description on the form may not really represent the facts, but instead a slanted reaction in anger should they be filled out as soon as the helmets come off. Cooler heads filling out the form may bring clarity and avoid further escalation.

[vicktorvolpe]

A cool down period may be a good idea.

NASA NE we don't have contact impound, but you have to fill out a contact report if you have any contact. If one party to contact fills out the form, and you don't......you're in trouble.

The forms can be funny. Especially when a slow car taps the rear bumper of a fast car exiting a corner.

-Vick

[Terry Hanushek]

Rob Thiele: My only concern is that sometimes it takes a breather after something happens. If you force to document things immediately when emotions are still high, it may cement uncompromising positions that may otherwise look different after a paddock conversation and views and advice from other people later.

Andy Bettencourt: It would facilitate 'discussion' as well...sometimes better left until cooler heads prevailed, sometimes better to discuss right away,

Dan Sheppard: Although cool down time may be good, more often drivers never get to talk about what happen or nothing gets done.

Chris Raffaelli: I suggest that they be submitted after a cool down period. I assume that these will be used as evidence should there be a protest and to track a pattern of behavior.

I intend to start slow and keep an eye on the process. I suspect that most contacts (at least in Pro IT) will be able to be addressed fairly quickly. If there is something really contentious, someone from our staff will probably be on hand to moderate.

I doubt that I will use pre-filled (name, car number, etc.) until mid season. It will NOT be considered an honor to have your own personalized witness statements.

See ya at the races

Terry

[RSTPerformance]

Stephen- the black book is the "Red Book" and it is a way to resolve issues that could become issues in future races. Sorta acts as a way to document drivers issues, workers issues and stewards issues. It helps "visiting" stewards understand some (little) history.

I really like this idea but for it to work you need to keep it simple. A nice preprinted form with a space for both drivers name and/or number and class. Then the rest needs to be checkboxes that are easy to fill out. If you don't do this you will not get the info you want or need. Not to mention we all like this here on the computer but when you need to spend 10min in impound filling out a form from when you got hit rather than celebrating a victory or your best lap time it won't be as much fun.

Anyway, love the idea!

Raymond "I wonder how many people who get reported to the stewards will actually stop on his/her own?" Blethen

[RSTPerformance]

Anyone who says a checkbox type form won't work, call me... Most large transportation companies use mostly checkboxes in the "Accident" reports they use. A small part is a picture and/or written statement that generally is very biased.

Raymond

[StephenB]

Anyone who says a checkbox type form won't work, call me... Most large transportation companies use mostly checkboxes in the "Accident" reports they use. A small part is a picture and/or written statement that generally is very biased.

Raymond

Can you post an example.
I actually agree with you for once... check boxes are the way to go. Less emotion/feelings and much faster. Space on the back that we can fill out IF we want to share our emotions/feelings.

Stephen

[Kai Noeske]

Agree too. That's a very good idea.

What would happen in cases where one driver has to go through medical for checkout, and/or where at least one car comes in on the flatbed? Would that collision be considered under investigation until both drivers/entrants have had a chance to file their contact report forms?

[ulfelder]

I want to like this idea, but ...

Take as an example an SM race at the Glen. It's entirely possible to do a little consensual bump-drafting with 5 or 6 different cars during a 9-lap race. No big deal, thumbs-up all around, you push me toward the Bus Stop one lap, I push you the next ...

Is a driver expected to fill out a form for each incident of contact? Hell, how would you remember all the car numbers?

[dickita15]

Kai
I would assume that if only one driver reported the contact someone official may investigate and find out why the other driver did not. Could be he was tied up as you describe, could be he did not know they touched, could be someone got the wrong car. These forms would not necessarily start an official action or they might depending on the situation.
It certainly would give the club officials a better handle on what is going go out there.
I do not see it as a big deal if I write something on the form right after the session and after reflection or reviewing video I decided it happened differently. I see that as understandable.

[dickita15]

Steve,
If you touch someone in a consensual manner you better make sure it really is consensual.
Or the FBI will investigate and you will resign in disgrace… opps wrong forum.

[Greg Amy]

Take as an example an SM race at the Glen. It's entirely possible to do a little consensual bump-drafting with 5 or 6 different cars during a 9-lap race. No big deal...

Except it's contrary to the regs and subject to the same sanctions as all other metal-to-metal contact...regardless of intent and consensus. - GA

[JLawton]

Great idea Dick!!