Nov '12 Prelim Minutes & Tech Bulletin

[Chip42]

mike,

pressure differentials matter. even if they do not result in downforce, you can use a splitter to enhance cooling flow through the radiator, reduce drag, etc...
they are being used because they work, NOT because they look cool. some guys SWEAR by basic air dams, too. the questions are "are they allowed" and "where can the supports be located" not "how much downforce will it generate."

[CRallo]

It says that it(whatever you happen to call it) must be attached to the body, but not ONLY the body. So where is the confusion about mounting?

And why ban limited production OEM stuff if you can make/buy custom? I never understood that.

[Flyinglizard]

I was trying to imply that the only rule needed is the shadow rule.
Mounting rules bother some cars more than others and are really not needed as long as the entire air control devices are covered by the body shadow rule.

[Andy Bettencourt]

It says that it(whatever you happen to call it) must be attached to the body, but not ONLY the body. So where is the confusion about mounting?

Agreed. So long as the mounting doesn't do something illegal, I don't get the issue.

[Andy Bettencourt]

And I am not understanding the Accord bitching. We all know how we got here and nobody has to like it - but here is the net result:

All ITB cars processed at 25%, 30% multi-valve boner gone
MR2 finally gets it's dyno data read and approved at a lower %

If the MKII VW's can make 25% over stock, they are fine. If they can't, send in the data.

[Chip42]

And I am not understanding the Accord bitching. We all know how we got here and nobody has to like it - but here is the net result:

All ITB cars processed at 25%, 30% multi-valve boner gone
MR2 finally gets it's dyno data read and approved at a lower %

If the MKII VW's can make 25% over stock, they are fine. If they can't, send in the data.

I'm pretty sure the A2s are run @ 30%, thus their gripe. I've said it a million times - data changes things, griping just makes people disinterested.

[Bill Miller]

I'm pretty sure the A2s are run @ 30%, thus their gripe. I've said it a million times - data changes things, griping just makes people disinterested.

So where's the data that supported the A2's being run at 30% (and the A1's being run at 38%)? If there's no data to support applying a higher multiplier, why is the higher # being used? You said you guys chucked the default 30% multiplier for multi-valve ITB/C cars, but are going to look closer at them. Why should anything else that doesn't have supporting evidence that justifies a higher multiplier be treated any differently?

You've got a long time member of this forum, and ITB racer, that has finally had enough of the BS. You've got the guy w/ the ITB Scirocco, that had it take over a year and a half to get his letter through, and they still stuck it up his ass, w/o any supporting data. I'd say that is the kind of stuff that makes people disinterested.

[Hoof Hearted]

You've got the guy w/ the ITB Scirocco, that had it take over a year and a half to get his letter through, and they still stuck it up his ass, w/o any supporting data. I'd say that is the kind of stuff that makes people disinterested.

"That guy" is me... ...and I've moved to the Prod side in the H variety. In the CenDiv, H Prod is currently nationally strong and I'm looking forward to joining the Prod Party, right Chris? Have you located your Lexan yet?

[Chip42]

So where's the data that supported the A2's being run at 30% (and the A1's being run at 38%)? If there's no data to support applying a higher multiplier, why is the higher # being used? You said you guys chucked the default 30% multiplier for multi-valve ITB/C cars, but are going to look closer at them. Why should anything else that doesn't have supporting evidence that justifies a higher multiplier be treated any differently?

You've got a long time member of this forum, and ITB racer, that has finally had enough of the BS. You've got the guy w/ the ITB Scirocco, that had it take over a year and a half to get his letter through, and they still stuck it up his ass, w/o any supporting data. I'd say that is the kind of stuff that makes people disinterested.

the "minimum" multiplier for ITB/C multivalve cars has been removed. if and when justification exists to use something higher or lower than 25%, it will be used.

re existing classifications - we can change them IF there is data substantiating them. yes, it can mean proving a negative. the idea is to NOT make it easy to change willy nilly. I don't have the data in front of me that lead to the A2 weight. it's been around a while. but if it can be proven "heavy" then I'd support the change. ditto any other car being too light or heavy for it's class. but in many cases the committee doesn't know enough about the situation of any specific car to initiate that change on our own.

I am terribly upset to hear that ANYONE is upset with the changes to date. everything we recommend is done with the intention of matching power to weight in the class using as close to actual output as we can agree on and the process formula. that's the idea behind the process, right?

re the 'rocco - timing was ITAC, we dropped the ball, simple as that. as for the weight it was given, that was a decision made by the CRB. thats how the system works sometimes. not a lot the ITAC can do about that, though we can push further with support.

[gran racing]

All ITB cars processed at 25%, 30% multi-valve boner gone

When did this happen? I received an e-mail not that long ago that my request to eliminate the 30% multi-valve was declined.

And I am not understanding the Accord bitching.

The bitching is about getting all cars given a fair shake. There's been plenty of data on the Accord. Hell, one of the CRB members (former? don't even know anymore).

Yeah Tom, the Prelude I have has 110 stock HP. The differences between them are CR as you noted, and a couple of other non-legal IT mods.

[Andy Bettencourt]

When did this happen? I received an e-mail not that long ago that my request to eliminate the 30% multi-valve was declined.

Forget where I read it, maybe the Box, but all ITB now processed at 25% with a proactive look for power numbers on anything with Multi-valve before classification or correction.

The bitching is about getting all cars given a fair shake. There's been plenty of data on the Accord. Hell, one of the CRB members (former? don't even know anymore).

So it would seem we are there. 25% on new classifications. If a car is classed at over that based on the boner, then it should get swapped back per the Ops Manual. If it's processed over that based on dyno numbers, so what?

[jjjanos]

It says that it(whatever you happen to call it) must be attached to the body, but not ONLY the body.

It says it must be attached to the body (except for those with Integrated bumper assemblies who may attach to the bumper assembly.)

9.1.3.D ....Modifications shall not be made unless authorized herein.

So, yes, it is only to the body or the integrated bumper assembly.

So where is the confusion about mounting?

Seems perfectly clear to me.

Agreed. So long as the mounting doesn't do something illegal, I don't get the issue.

9.1.3.D ....Modifications shall not be made unless authorized herein.

That's the issue. The GCR specifies how these are to be mounted. There is no allowance to mount them anywhere but the body. It may be a stupid restriction, but it is the rule.