ITS Porsche 944 - competitive?

[blueray]

Sold my IT7 car and looking for something a little faster and more 'interesting'. There's an 84 944 for sale not too far from me. Has a logbook but was last inspected (and ran) in 2008. Looks well built, not sure what it may need mechanically due to sitting for four years.

Any 944 people out there that can talk about how/if they are competitive? I've been told the BMW 325 is much faster but they just don't do it for me like the Porsche. I expect I'll put some time into getting it ready to race again. I don't recall any major rule changes since 2008 that would require major revisions to the car.

Thoughts? am I crazy?

[spawpoet]

I can only speak about the ones that have run in our area (Florida), and on speed alone those cars have not been competitive vs ITS front runers. That said, if I'm not mistaken, Kip Van Steenburg used to be very competitive in his 944s in the SE, but I've never raced against him. I imagine like most racecars, it comes down to how well built the car is, and how well it's driven.

[JeffYoung]

I can only speak about the ones that have run in our area (Florida), and on speed alone those cars have not been competitive vs ITS front runers. That said, if I'm not mistaken, Kip Van Steenburg used to be very competitive in his 944s in the SE, but I've never raced against him. I imagine like most racecars, it comes down to how well built the car is, and how well it's driven.

My opinion only: I don't think anyone has built a to the max 944 8v since the weight was dropped. Clearly the suspension and brakes are there. Power is the issue.

THe 944S on the other hand solves the power problem and when built and driven to the max (like KIp's) is a potential ITS overdog. But it is an expensive build.

I still think a 944 at the new weight would be competitive although I think the Porsche crowd disagrees wtih me. Solid, reliable car with great brakes and handling though.

[timo944]

My opinion only: I don't think anyone has built a to the max 944 8v since the weight was dropped. Clearly the suspension and brakes are there. Power is the issue.

THe 944S on the other hand solves the power problem and when built and driven to the max (like KIp's) is a potential ITS overdog. But it is an expensive build.

I still think a 944 at the new weight would be competitive although I think the Porsche crowd disagrees wtih me. Solid, reliable car with great brakes and handling though.

Jeff you are on the money. My "other" car is a 944 and although it is not built "to the max," it has a good strong motor that takes advantage of most of the rules. It's low on HP compared to BMW's etc but it's also low on weight. 2-3 years ago at the ARRC I was almost keeping up with Matt Reppert doing 1:43's, and that was my first race of the year.

Unfortunately the 944 motor can be tempermental, and mine went south. You need to have a very well designed oil pan/scraper system that prevents foaming, since this is the bane of the 944. Most recommend an Accusump although I have nver run one.

I'd go for an 8V over 16v due to the weight difference. There are lots of good options for the suspension and the weight limit is reachable within the rules if you weigh under 225 lb or so. The '84 is a good chassis - light weight plus parts are much cheaper than later years (ie brake rotors etc). Use a manual steering rack.

You need an '88 motor - and get the head flowed and worked to the limit of the rules. That's where the power is.

There is another individual in your area looking at building a 944. Send me a PM and I will see if he wants to compare notes with you. I have talked to him quite a bit.

The 944 may not be the fastest car but it has excellent handling, is very forgiving, and parts and upgrades are easily available. Not a winner at Daytona maybe, but at places like VIR and Road Atlanta it can win with the right driver/build combination.

[Andy Bettencourt]

We have seen a full-tilt Milledge 944S on our dyno...and I am here to tell you that give the power and weight, it should be an ANIMAL in ITS.

[JeffYoung]

As I continuously fark with drum brakes and get very frustrated, thoughts of a 944S dance in my head.

[ITA_honda]

If built and driven well its a great choice for ITS. They can be very competitive. Ive been testing and sorting a 944 out for my friend that runs ITS and its very fast. Downside is the expense of parts. Good luck!

[Ron Earp]

I've always thought the 944 had the goods to get it done in ITS. I bought a 933 S2 to build for ITR but after owning it for six months and researching parts costs I sold it. It was simply too rich for my blood - $400 for complete gasket kits and stuff like that scared me off. I suspect it could be done for cheaper if you were in the knowledge of Porsche, but I'm a Ferd boy at heart and went that way instead.

Now a 944S compared to a TR8, well, I suspect the 944 would be about the same cost as a TR8, maybe cheaper for some things. And definitely less maintenance for sure. I sure would like it if you were in a 944 and I was The Torque King for a change. Get a 944, and get some of your life back. I dare you.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I've always thought the 944 had the goods to get it done in ITS. I bought a 933 S2 to build for ITR but after owning it for six months and researching parts costs I sold it. It was simply too rich for my blood - $400 for complete gasket kits and stuff like that scared me off. I suspect it could be done for cheaper if you were in the knowledge of Porsche, but I'm a Ferd boy at heart and went that way instead.

Now a 944S compared to a TR8, well, I suspect the 944 would be about the same cost as a TR8, maybe cheaper for some things. And definitely less maintenance for sure. I sure would like it if you were in a 944 and I was The Torque King for a change. Get a 944, and get some of your life back. I dare you.

You wouldn't be much more of a king if it was the 944S.

[benspeed]

They can make the power - got to make sure you work with an expert engine guy. Russ Jones still has a really fast 944S up north.

[Ron Earp]

You wouldn't be much more of a king if it was the 944S.

Little do thy know of the Pushrod Brigade...

[JeffYoung]

You wouldn't be much more of a king if it was the 944S.

216 wtq here.....whose the king? I already know of one car higher than that.....

[Robbie]

Torque, schmorque. Show me thrust curves.

[Ron Earp]

I already know of one car higher than that.....

Chuck Baader's ITA BMW?

[JeffYoung]

ITA Miata?

[Andy Bettencourt]

ITA Miata?

Mine is way higher than that.

Would you be surprised if a 944S made in excess of 185ft/lbs?

[JeffYoung]

No, given that the 2.3 Prelude motor in ITS made something like that.

Big fours can turn out some torque.

[Ron Earp]

Would you be surprised if a 944S made in excess of 185ft/lbs?

No. But I'd still be The Torque King.

[JeffYoung]

No. But I'd still be The Torque King.

Got to work on that lap time king though! Doh!

Seriously, if you guys have not watched some of the Youtube vid of the RUstangs,these cars in their first few race weekends have run top 2-5 in very competitive ITS SEDiv fields.

Can't stop? Wrong.

Can't turn? Wrong.

Can't make power? Wrong.

These boys have done very impressive work.

[jamrce1]

Glad you asked. We are giving strong consideration to building a 944 to run ITS but specifically the Florida endurance series. There is alot that can be done to these cars that is not being done. I have looked at several recently and could not see where any of these cars are at the limit. I must admit to being a stickler for preperation both initial and prerace. THINGS for these cars are dirt cheap compared to what I am used to for formula cars and sports racers. There is a fellow in West Palm Beach that is very familiar with these cars and also has a long history of prepping and racing BMW's that feels the can be very competitive and reliable.
Touch bases with me when you get a chance and we will chat
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