What's the chassis??

[JoshS]

Just to add to the BMW confusion ... James is arguing that a Z3 is an E36, because internally, BMW calls it an E36 (specifically, an E36/7 for the convertible). It *is* an E36 forward of the firewall, with different bodywork. It does have an E30 suspension bolted into the back.

To make matters worse, '99+ Z3s were part E36 (main chassis), part E30 (rear suspension), and part E46 (engine & electronics). The chassis is a variant of the E36 chassis by BMW's own nomenclature. I think his question is valid.

In layman's terms, he wants to use a Z3 chassis with an E36 325i intake manifold (not available in any Z3) with an E36 328i engine (which was also available in the Z3). This engine/intake combo would clearly be allowed in an E36 sedan or coupe unibody, but is unclear if it's allowed in a Z3 unibody.

[Greg Amy]

In layman's terms, he wants to use a Z3 chassis with an E36 325i intake manifold (not available in any Z3) with an E36 328i engine (which was also available in the Z3). This engine/intake combo would clearly be allowed in an E36 sedan or coupe unibody, but is unclear if it's allowed in a Z3 unibody.

I would say "no", for the same reason I cannot run a Del Sol intake (same as the Type R) on my 1.8L Integra engine: that intake was not available on either the Integra's 1.8L engine or in any Integra chassis. Yet if that Integra 1.8L engine was installed in the Del Sol, the superior intake would be compliant...

See? Even Super Touring has "warts and all"...so choose wisely.

GA

[Z3_GoCar]

Just to add to the BMW confusion ... James is arguing that a Z3 is an E36, because internally, BMW calls it an E36 (specifically, an E36/7 for the convertible). It *is* an E36 forward of the firewall, with different bodywork. It does have an E30 suspension bolted into the back.

To make matters worse, '99+ Z3s were part E36 (main chassis), part E30 (rear suspension), and part E46 (engine & electronics). The chassis is a variant of the E36 chassis by BMW's own nomenclature. I think his question is valid.

In layman's terms, he wants to use a Z3 chassis with an E36 325i intake manifold (not available in any Z3) with an E36 328i engine (which was also available in the Z3). This engine/intake combo would clearly be allowed in an E36 sedan or coupe unibody, but is unclear if it's allowed in a Z3 unibody.

Bingo, Josh has got what I want to do, use the OBDI manifold which is available on all e36 varients on my e36 based 2.8 liter.

I would say "no", for the same reason I cannot run a Del Sol intake (same as the Type R) on my 1.8L Integra engine: that intake was not available on either the Integra's 1.8L engine or in any Integra chassis. Yet if that Integra 1.8L engine was installed in the Del Sol, the superior intake would be compliant...

See? Even Super Touring has "warts and all"...so choose wisely.

GA

But, does Honda and Acura call the both the Integra and Del-Sol a VK chassis? All the other e36 variants get to do this, why not the Z3 e36 variant?

[Greg Amy]

But, does Honda and Acura call the both the Integra and Del-Sol a VK chassis? All the other e36 variants get to do this, why not the Z3 e36 variant?

Nope, but does SCCA publish the allowed "chassis" as "E36", or do they publish it as "M3" or "325"?

Maybe there's your answer.

GA

[Z3_GoCar]

Nope, but does SCCA publish the allowed "chassis" as "E36", or do they publish it as "M3" or "325"?

Maybe there's your answer.

GA

In STO, it's listed as an e36. In STU it's not listed.

[Greg Amy]

In STO, it's listed as an e36. In STU it's not listed.

Yes, but almost every other precedent in the ST regs - STL, STU allowances and STO classifications - all reference make/model versus internal chassis codes. That, and/or it specs a particular year of chassis by further spec'ing the internal chassis code (e.g., "E46 M3").

So I suggest we've taken the long route to come around to answering your question of "what's the chassis" as "BMW M3", or "BMW E46 M3", not just "BMW E36".

GA

On edit: just took a gander at existing STU/L/O classifications to verify that. STO lists things such as "BMW E46 M3 & E36" and "BMW E46 M3" and "BMW M3 E92". The only STU allowances are in World Challenge, and appear as "BMW E36 M3 (95-99)" and "BMW E46 3 Series". The implication of these listings is that the internal chassis codes are secondary clarifiers to the make/model being classified, using those codes instead of years; in other words, what's being classified is, for example, the "BMW M3, 1992-1998"(?), shorthanded to "BMW M3, E36." The implication of that usage is that the "chassis" is defined by "BMW M3" and is clarified by "E36", not the other way around. Thus, this allowance/restriction applies only to the BMW M3, not to any chassis code that's an E36 yet is not an M3.

Now, all that said, I suggest if you wish to have the other cars applied to that allowance, the CRB would likely approve it if requested. Or, they may choose to say "whatever, if it's an E36 it applies" and change the line so that it removes the "M3".

[jhooten]

In STO, it's listed as an e36. In STU it's not listed.

There is one spec line for BMW E46 & E36 in STO and it says M3 not Z3.

[Z3_GoCar]

There is one spec line for BMW E46 & E36 in STO and it says M3 not Z3.

Sorry Jerry, Greg has it correctly: e46 M3 & e36. To me that implies that the e46 must be the M3 version and the e36 could be any version with the S54 motor.