Treadzone ProIT/SM split starts...

[Knestis]

>> this my feeling you guys feel we should be running for overall position not class position?

That's not the case at all. The reality is that a split start just trades one set of unpredictable challenges for a different, and arguably more likely, challenges.

There's nothing about SMs - contrary to what some people think - that make them any different as a group from, say, the ITS cars that I'm almost always in the middle of. It's entirely possible that there will be a half dozen of them between me and the first-place ITB car (this WAS the case at the NJMP Pro IT I did) but it could equally be ITS cars.

In an effort to make things less complicated, we guarantee that some faster cars are going to have to pass slower cars that they wouldn't have to deal with, or have to pass them earlier in the race when the pack is less strung out.

We are always racing for class positions but there's nothing we can do to assure that other classes won't be in our race, and the artifice of split starts introduces variables and potential for conflict that wouldn't otherwise exist.

K

EDIT - I should share my bias that I think traffic and dealing with out-of-class cars is part of the skill set that's being tested any time I "race" other ITB cars.

[RSTPerformance]

Kirk- Your thoughts are well put! You are spot on with your POV. I personally think it would make better racing the other way but I guess we all have our preferences! Thanks for Your thoughts, I really appreciate understanding another POV.

Raymond

[RacerBill]

Just to add another point of view, split starts can be a real nighmare when there is a problem with the first group. The rules of start dictate that if the first group gets a green, then the second group gets a green, no matter what shape the field is in. Then it's up to a start judge, if one is designated, to apply penalties to offending drivers. If there is an issue with the first group in the first turn, hopefully there is enough time to bring out a yellow or waving yellow to warn the drivers, who may or not be watching the starter (how many drivers have radios and crews to tell them when the starter throws the green?). There have been very painful consequences as the result of the second group charging into turn one with 50 - 70% track blockage.

Just another point of view.

[Z3_GoCar]

What's really funny is when the Production guys request a split start becuase there's DOT-R tired cars in their run group. They say, "Oh this DOT-R guys going to be a rocket down the straights and hold us slick tired cars up in the corners"

The payback is when the DOT-R tired car out qualifies them all

[Drew M]

We did the split start in Round 1 at NJMP. I like the single start. Being a mid-pack ITS driver; on split starts, I have packs of lead Miatas screaming past me by lap 2. It throws me off, and lap cars sometimes throw them off. I know, traffic is part of racing, but it puts a bit of a damper on your race when you spend the first few laps trying to avoid getting hit by dive-bombing Miatas instead of finding your rythm.

I'd rather mix it up with comparable Miatas than have to worry about getting in the way of leaders so early on in the race. At least when there is a single start, you can have an idea of when the few ITR car should be coming around to lap you.

[RSTPerformance]

I had no idea so many people didn't like split starts... Good to know for sure, I can keep my mouth shut from now on and just enjoy watching the starts!!! I will still come play with the group when I can afford some of the higher profile events that I do love!!!

Raymond

[gran racing]

Sometimes I like them especially in 'bigger" events such as the ARRC. Now having been on both sides in an ITB and this weekend in an SSM car, it's tough for both classes. The top two ITB cars and the top two SSM cars were mixed in with each other. Speeds were made in different places as well. Tough when multiple cars are battling for the lead in different classes, right in the same place.

However in this case, I think all drivers did their best to work it out as best as possible. Later in the race the 2nd ITB car gave me the point by with the lead SSM car in front of Rick's ITB car. Didn't take it thinking in would mess up his race. (In retrospect I probably should have but didn't think I'd catch the leader.)

[Drew M]

I had no idea so many people didn't like split starts... Good to know for sure, I can keep my mouth shut from now on and just enjoy watching the starts!!! I will still come play with the group when I can afford some of the higher profile events that I do love!!!

Raymond

Nothing wrong with bringing up a suggestion aimed at improving the race.

[jjjanos]

There have been very painful consequences as the result of the second group charging into turn one with 50 - 70% track blockage.

Just another point of view.

Questions:
1. So it is better to have another 20 cars part of the pack as the cars in 5th and 6th position block 50-70% of the track?
2. Turn 1 failed to display the appropriate flag?

[gran racing]

What's the rationale for not having a combined start some of the pro events such as the Rolex / Conti series? Wouldn't the faster classes just run away anyways? Or strictly for TV and entertainment purposes?

[jjjanos]

What's the rationale for not having a combined start some of the pro events such as the Rolex / Conti series? Wouldn't the faster classes just run away anyways? Or strictly for TV and entertainment purposes?

Guessing here -

1. Nothing to do with entertainment value as more cars through T1 at once would be more entertaining and the split start gives us half-screens of the fast and slow classes.
2. It spreads out the field so that a bone-head move by a fast/slow car won't take out a slow/fast car.
3. Reduces the accordian effect.

[jjjanos]

>> this my feeling you guys feel we should be running for overall position not class position?

That's not the case at all. The reality is that a split start just trades one set of unpredictable challenges for a different, and arguably more likely, challenges.

We are always racing for class positions but there's nothing we can do to assure that other classes won't be in our race, and the artifice of split starts introduces variables and potential for conflict that wouldn't otherwise exist.

If the tradition was to grid by class via split starts (and that's what the current system represents tradition) and someone suggested moving to en masse gridding via qualifying time, everything you just said would still hold.

What you are saying is that you prefer a set of variables with which you have greater experience over a set of variables with which you have less experience. The potential impacts of either set of variables vary depending on the circumstances -- the classes, the track, the lap times of those in the classes, the number of cars, etc.

A split-start can be the best option at times - for example, if the bulk of the ITS class are running the same lap times as the ITB cars in the same run group. A second example is when the field is 80+ cars (especially if the starter decides to throw a late green).

You are correct that dealing with cars in other classes is part of multi-class racing. What you fail to acknowledge is that multi-class racing is not the preferred option. The preferred option is to have run groups consisting of a single class. We settle for multi-class racing because most classes do not have sufficient cars to justify a single-class run group.