Chumpcars can run NASA !!

[Flyinglizard]

We ran with NASA last week @ Sebring.
" Chumpcars can run without any hassle".
NASA is also going to add a 2 hr sat eve enduro. Chumps and all closed cars invited.
I have sent the rule basics to SCCA locals and have not heard anything. maybe : "if we ignore them they will go away." And we shall.

Of course I included that I would help this along in any way needed.
Any RE can email me direct if interested . Thanks, MM

[gran racing]

Mike, if you don't hear back from them it doesn't necessarily mean they're ignoring you. It's hard to beleive how many people involved will never even see the e-mails sent to them.

[Matt93SE]

Good to hear someone is supporting those cheapskate racers.
I wonder if the local astronauts are doing same?

[Flyinglizard]

I havent seen any cheapskate racers. These guys are some of the best funded racers I have ever delt with. Fly in, race ,fly home. I have 3 cars almost full for Sebring( maybe 2 seta open) of 12 spots.
The cars have gotten a little pricey. 7-12k for front runner.

[Simon T.]

Most NASA races are ran like a destruction derby anyway so why not?




:runs:

[Knestis]

I don't think that's a fair characterization, actually. Regions differ in terms of things we should worry about but that's the case for SCCA, NASA, and the rest.

K

EDIT - to the original point, i think it is *very* interesting how quickly - and publicly - we are coming to the realization that these aren't $500 race cars. I come back to the fundamental question of how to cap or bracket their performance, at which point I think Mike's proposition about tires is an increasingly attractive brainstorm.

[gran racing]

The cars have gotten a little pricey. 7-12k for front runner.

Which is pretty damn annoying considering what the purpose of Chumpcar was.

[Knestis]

Which is pretty damn predictable considering what the purpose of Chumpcar was.

Fizzixed.

:026:

K

[Matt93SE]

The cars have gotten a little pricey. 7-12k for front runner.

Sadly, that's still "cheap" racing. How much is a front running ITS car? [assumption alert!!] Isn't that about the prep level of the front-running Chumps [assumption]

Cheap racing is never cheap when you're said and done.

even a completely legit $350 LeMon car cost $5000 to build several years ago. Same car has had probably another $5k in work done to it since...

[forestdweller37]

The top running teams here in the Iowa/Minnesota/Wisconsin area aren't that expensive. They're just stock E30 or E36 BMW's with some maintenance and good drivers.

[spawpoet]

The top running teams here in the Iowa/Minnesota/Wisconsin area aren't that expensive. They're just stock E30 or E36 BMW's with some maintenance and good drivers.

The same drivers/cars wouldn't be running up front in a more competitive region then. IMHO good/great driving, good suspension, stock motor gets you mid-pack in parts of the country where IT is highly competitive. We put a driver who's finished 2nd in prod at the Runoffs more than once in our car, and he was more than 3 sec slower than top ITS times in our region (CFR) at the track we ran. We have spent about what you'd have in a top running Chump car in our car, with essentially a stock motor. To play up front in ITS in Sediv you're gonna have 12-15k in your car unless you're building your engine yourself. I might be low with that number.

[mossaidis]

^ I would guess more like $20K+ for a 9/10ths build

[Flyinglizard]

Simon, what races have you run?? There is more contact in the first 30sec of a SM race than all of our Chump races. NASA has been clean also.

My "A "car will be boosted by the end of the week. T 3 turbo, chinese manifold etc.
We started , ITB times would get you top 5 lap times. Now , we need about 2:40 flat for Sebring,( ITA or hot SM times.) even now with the Sebring being slower by about 1.5 sec. I need a real 160hp , 2000#,

No rules makes it tough. I'll be out by next year.

[Knestis]

So Mike's got me thinking, particularly his idea about tire-limiting performance. I'm picturing where LeChump eventually, logically meets club endurance racing. The performance - and cost - escalation is impressing even this jaded old bahstahd... So let it. But limit performance not only by the type of tire but the size. The more I think about it, the more I like "under-tired" and "way under-tired" as classes. For a start...

Then require open differentials.

Establish a minimum weight of 1 pound per cc of engine displacement.

Add the old-school refueling rules we had under the ESCORT series - rigs galore but you've got to use an unmodified commercial unleaded gas pump hose nozzle.

Get rid of the silly crap - the themes, bogus penalties, and all the rest. Let people start taking some more pride in how their cars look, 'cause frankly the shark fins and goofy stuff *really* puts me off.

Finally, accept the reality that we can't control costs. The tire and diff limits will conspire to

Go racing...?

K

[downingracing]

We ran with NASA last week @ Sebring.
" Chumpcars can run without any hassle".
NASA is also going to add a 2 hr sat eve enduro. Chumps and all closed cars invited.
I have sent the rule basics to SCCA locals and have not heard anything. maybe : "if we ignore them they will go away." And we shall.

Of course I included that I would help this along in any way needed.
Any RE can email me direct if interested . Thanks, MM

Of course they let you run without any hassle! You've got X number of cars and are willing to pay. If you bring enough cars, they will even give you your own run group (at the expense of others who are already there) They are there to make money and will do whatever it takes to make $. They will be happy to let you come in and play while looking the other way on most things! I know - I've got a NASA logbook and no one got within 50ft of my car when it was issued... Just be sure to not hit anything (guard rail, concrete, fence, tow truck) during your race weekend - Your 'cheap' racing will become very expensive very fast.

And Chump cars that meet IT safety requirements can run as-is in ITE. These are the ITE rules for GL-Div:

Great Lake Division ITE RULES:
A. Cars prepared for any past or current recognized showroom stock based
amateur or professional racing series, not eligible for any current SCCA regional class.
B. Drivers must have the rule book and be able to prove compliance to the series rules the
car is prepared to.
C. All cars must run DOT approved tires.
D. Cars must meet minimum safety requirements defined in the GCR and ITCS for

Improved Touring.

Find the rules for your local region (SCCA) ITE class and go have a blast! It really is that easy. You want your own class? There are plenty of classes already and there is already a place for cars from other series to run. Yes - you may get beat by a Viper or some other high HP ITE car. And they will get the $6 trophy. If you bring enough cars - Do your own trophy (Beer to the winner or whatever). If not getting a little trophy is the make/break for coming - I've got nothing.

[Simon T.]

Simon, what races have you run?? There is more contact in the first 30sec of a SM race than all of our Chump races. NASA has been clean also.

I haven't raced NASA, never will. lol I ran HPDE with them back in 04 and have been turned off since, I've worked events though with them which is where I'm basing my opinion from. I've NEVER counted so many car to car impacts than I have working NASA. Metal to metal, wall impacts, oiling down the whole track, you name it. Yes, these things happen in SCCA and anywhere else, but their mindset on safety just seems far less. I would not feel safe taking my car out on track at a NASA event. Dare I even bring up the training some of the workers have.

I was interested in their enduros as they are ran well, but I've decided if I want a long enduro I'll run Chump now as I was impressed with the Road Atlanta round in February and fully expect to be there in December instead of the NASA 8 hour.

So Mike's got me thinking, particularly his idea about tire-limiting performance. I'm picturing where LeChump eventually, logically meets club endurance racing. The performance - and cost - escalation is impressing even this jaded old bahstahd... So let it. But limit performance not only by the type of tire but the size. The more I think about it, the more I like "under-tired" and "way under-tired" as classes. For a start...

Then require open differentials.

Establish a minimum weight of 1 pound per cc of engine displacement.

Add the old-school refueling rules we had under the ESCORT series - rigs galore but you've got to use an unmodified commercial unleaded gas pump hose nozzle.

Get rid of the silly crap - the themes, bogus penalties, and all the rest. Let people start taking some more pride in how their cars look, 'cause frankly the shark fins and goofy stuff *really* puts me off.

Finally, accept the reality that we can't control costs. The tire and diff limits will conspire to

Go racing...?

K

I like the way you think.

hey are there to make money and will do whatever it takes to make $.

This pretty much sums of one of my complaints.

[gran racing]

There is more contact in the first 30sec of a SM race than all of our Chump races.

Guess it depends on each individual race. At Nelson last year, there were a TON of incidents and contact. So much so ChumpCar stopped the racing to hold a meeting about it. (Glad they did and kudos to them for doing so.)

the shark fins and goofy stuff *really* puts me off.

Yeah, me too. Don't think it's that bad in ChumpCar compared to Lemons.

[Simon T.]

Yeah, me too. Don't think it's that bad in ChumpCar compared to Lemons.

I don't think it is either, there were some nice looking cars at RA earlier in the year, that has always been a turnoff for me too.

[Flyinglizard]

If we could run the Chumps in CFR races, I would have run my car. ITE, ITO whatever. Not allowed here. The CFR region really sucks as far as how they treat new people and most of the racers in general.
I have been told that " we dont want those cars running with real race cars". I think that I will plate my Chump and run it in the PDX, next to all of the fancy street cars...
As Prior mentioned, the cages are well above any SCCA regs,the cars run on DOT tires. The rules allow holes in the hoods, cut off roofs etc.
There is a real market for the real 500$ cars at this point, due to lack of rules @ Chumpcar.
NASA, PBOC, BMW club welcome the cars with a smile and a bill$.
My car looks pretty extreme with no roof, big splitter, intercooler thru the hood, etc. There are pics in the photo section here.

I see how basic rules would help. I lke the narrow tires. But the #per CC needs some work. The 1600# Honda cant get to weight while the 5.0 Mustang cant make weight. ( my cut vw 1.8 car weighs about 1780 plus gas /driver)

I hate Nelson and did not go because of the trackSUX value. If you get a roll onto the straight, all the lead car has to do is move over 3ft and force a lift and the pass is over or you bump. I raced there enough to know that 80 cars will have a bump each lap. The 1.5 lane width along with one, maybe two passing zones make for crappy racing IMHO.
I much prefer SEbring Roebling Road , Road Atlanta.

[Knestis]

A 5.0 Mustang absolutely CAN make weight. It just needs 2000 pounds of ballast.

The point there is to build the rules so they loosely constrain the extremes of what is PRACTICAL, rather than trying to prevent everything that is POSSIBLE. There's no need to let every damned thing in.

K