STL: No National Championship?

[Andy Bettencourt]

I heard that the PTB have voted to not include STL as a 'medal-eligible' class for 2012. Seems as if all that double-dipping by non-STL cars didn't actually 'count' toward real numbers that were to be considered. Still get to run, but not for the jacket.

Looks like they will need boost the ranks the old fashion way...real cars being built.

[Greg Amy]

This was already decided when the class was made National last year. When it was approved as a National class, it was under the agreement that the class had "provisional" status and was not to run for a championship in 2012, but would be entered at the Runoffs as STU cars.

So...nothing has changed.

As far as numbers go, STL is pretty much a shoe-in for 2013. Check the latest National participation numbers: Super Touring Light is something like 5th overall in total participation numbers, year-to-date.

GA

Edit: added link to May Nat'l participation number. STL is fifth. We'll see how it goes once the rest of the country is racing.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Then they must have been considering it for 2012. Seems as if they are looking at 'real' STL cars as the real data. I am not sure why but that is the story from above.

[Greg Amy]

Then they must have been considering it for 2012. Seems as if they are looking at 'real' STL cars as the real data. I am not sure why but that is the story from above.

I haven't heard anything, other than a rumor that some CRB members were requesting National status from the BoD. This was not a STAC-generated initiative. Apparently, it didn't work out.

Personally, I'm really OK with that. I was a big proponent in 2011 with giving STL "provisional" National status so that it could compete in the National program for National numbers. And I'm very much in favor of "sink or swim" for the class (if it don't make the numbers, it don't make the show). But on the other hand, I'm also OK with promoting "double dippers" to make the numbers because, well, what's the difference, right? Numbers is numbers.

I'm not concerned about this recent turn of events (such as it is). We're still on track for promotion of long-term health of the class. - GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

well, what's the difference, right? Numbers is numbers.

I think if you pay your money and you are eligible, you should be counted. You bet.

[Knestis]

Then they must have been considering it for 2012. Seems as if they are looking at 'real' STL cars as the real data. I am not sure why but that is the story from above.

Sorry - dumb question. "Looking at 'real' STL cars...?" They pulled the "not real" ones from the numbers...?

K

[Andy Bettencourt]

Sorry - dumb question. "Looking at 'real' STL cars...?" They pulled the "not real" ones from the numbers...?

K

I guess they are concerned about the amount of SM's bumping the numbers up - meaning that because there are so few real STL cars that when it comes to a National Championship - and those DD's aren't there, you would have an uber-soft field. It is an interesting thought process if you value your gold medals.

But an entry IS an entry.

[Matt93SE]

How many STU cars at runoffs the last couple years were DD-ing SMs?
they just moved to STL this year instead..

an entry is an entry. If people want to pay their bucks and enter the class and race, it should count as an entry. (We still let SRX7s "race", right?)

[Andy Bettencourt]

. (We still let SRX7s "race", right?)

Well this is not quite the same thing. The debate on the table is defining a 'quality' National Champion. If STL averages 10 cars a National and 9 of them are SM's...and come the Runoffs only the 5 'real' STL cars show up, was that successful or what was intended. For sure no.

Still have another year to build the ranks.

[TStiles]

Isn't raising the 1.8 RWD weight to 2491# is going to "fix" the double dipping " issue " ?

[RacerBowie]

Isn't raising the 1.8 RWD weight to 2491# is going to "fix" the double dipping " issue " ?

No, because they can still double dip at their respective spec weights from THEIR class.

[Knestis]

LOL - Should they only count the non-old-British-POS Production cars in National counts, too...? Not count the IT cars with the minimum changes to run in Prod...?

K

[Matt93SE]

You mean like when Matt Reynolds brought his SM to an EP race and kicked everybody's ass in the rain?

[LD71]

This double dip Miata issue is a big one, glad I can sit on the sidelines and watch.
SCCA National #s would be even more of a concern without 2 & 3 fer Miatas so they are valuable, more regions would be canceling National races w/o them. But they tend to prop up classes as stated....it's possible STU peaked last year now that the dd Miatas moved to STL (a better fit IMO).
Agree with the concern about the feet on a Nat Champ race.....I'd love to go back and run for a Championship again but knowing that the majority of the cars I'd run against in the regular season are there to get added track time rather makes it less interesting to me....

LD71 .

[jhooten]

Double Dipping? At the Double rational Memorial day weekend we had one Miata that ran in ITE, ITA, SM, STU, and STL at some time during the weekend, Which was a real feat since ITA, STU, and STL are in the same run group.

I will explain. Saturday it was rented to a driver who wanted to only race on Saturday registering on line for a national race in and ITA car. Once the error was pointed out he changed his entry to STL after having it marked as ITA in morning practice, the stewards disallowed his time but let him start the STL race from the back. On Sunday it was rented to a STU driver who's own car was not able to take the track after his adventure in Saturday's race. SM has its own run group so that was not a problem. However the comedy of errors was highlighted by the rental driver who put ITE on the car and tried to compete in the big bore GT/Prod group. There was much talk on the radio as to if the black flag should be deployed as he was running lap times about 30 seconds slower than the leading GT1 car. Same car three different run groups, 5 different classes.

At least that was the story as told in the tech shed by the crew and drivers when they came to weigh the car for each driver change.

[LD71]

Back when the Archer Bros (I believe) ran a Sedan at the Runoffs in 2 classes (c &d ?) it was very cool, with the crew changing motors each day to make the rules for different classes. Now with folks just swapping letters from the alphabet toolbox, well...that's for others to decide.
Jerry with the dilemma you describe is it far off that the club removes the rule that 1 car can't be entered in 2 clases in the same run group? More entry fees for the region?
LD71

[Greg Amy]

I guess they are concerned about the amount of SM's bumping the numbers up...

Don't know where you're getting that "info", Andy, but I talked to a BoD member that was there, and double-dippers were not a factor in the discussion. As I wrote above, it has zero to do with Miatas, and everything to do with the original agreement for bringing STL into the National racing program.

Methinks someone is POOMA'ing you.

GA

[JohnRW]

...I talked to a BoD member that was there, and double-dippers were not a factor in the discussion. As I wrote above, it has zero to do with Miatas, and everything to do with the original agreement for bringing STL into the National racing program....

A +1 on the "BOD just doing what they said they were going to do" thing. A little bird told me.

[Matt93SE]

...it's possible STU peaked last year now that the dd Miatas moved to STL (a better fit IMO).

I agree STL is a better fit for the Miatas, but the STU thing is just a poor assumption on your part. STU's numbers are only growing here, and it has nothing to do with Miatas.
Here's a short breakdown of houston's regular STU cars:
1. Patrick Lindsey's retired World Challenge Mazda 6
2. BMW Z4
3. Solstice GXP
4. Another retired WC Mazda 6
5. Nissan 240SX (me)
6. BMW 328i
7. Audi A4
8. Retired WC VW hatch thingy (haven't seen him this year tho..)
9. 2nd Gen RX7- retired ITS car currently getting STU makeover.
10. retired WC Honda Prelude
11. Random SM double-dipper
12. That quintuple-entering Miata Jerry mentioned above

So out of 12 regular entries (we usually have 5-6 per race, pick any of the above and they could show up), only one, sometimes two are double-entering SMs.

Your region may be vastly different, but that's what I'm seeing in Houston.
There are also a couple others that are in the process of being built. one could be a Miata, could be RX7. either way, it will be a rotary, and it will be FAST.

[TStiles]

We welcome double dippers in SW Division STL , would love to have more to build the class.

Looking forward to the day when our STL field is as diverse and competitive as the STU field.

Back to the original issue ... I'm OK with STL being provisional ( or whatever you want to call it ) for the Runoffs in 2012. That's what the BoD stated when we got National status.