STL: No National Championship?

[RacerBowie]

Isn't raising the 1.8 RWD weight to 2491# is going to "fix" the double dipping " issue " ?

No, because they can still double dip at their respective spec weights from THEIR class.

[Knestis]

LOL - Should they only count the non-old-British-POS Production cars in National counts, too...? Not count the IT cars with the minimum changes to run in Prod...?

K

[Matt93SE]

You mean like when Matt Reynolds brought his SM to an EP race and kicked everybody's ass in the rain?

[LD71]

This double dip Miata issue is a big one, glad I can sit on the sidelines and watch.
SCCA National #s would be even more of a concern without 2 & 3 fer Miatas so they are valuable, more regions would be canceling National races w/o them. But they tend to prop up classes as stated....it's possible STU peaked last year now that the dd Miatas moved to STL (a better fit IMO).
Agree with the concern about the feet on a Nat Champ race.....I'd love to go back and run for a Championship again but knowing that the majority of the cars I'd run against in the regular season are there to get added track time rather makes it less interesting to me....

LD71 .

[jhooten]

Double Dipping? At the Double rational Memorial day weekend we had one Miata that ran in ITE, ITA, SM, STU, and STL at some time during the weekend, Which was a real feat since ITA, STU, and STL are in the same run group.

I will explain. Saturday it was rented to a driver who wanted to only race on Saturday registering on line for a national race in and ITA car. Once the error was pointed out he changed his entry to STL after having it marked as ITA in morning practice, the stewards disallowed his time but let him start the STL race from the back. On Sunday it was rented to a STU driver who's own car was not able to take the track after his adventure in Saturday's race. SM has its own run group so that was not a problem. However the comedy of errors was highlighted by the rental driver who put ITE on the car and tried to compete in the big bore GT/Prod group. There was much talk on the radio as to if the black flag should be deployed as he was running lap times about 30 seconds slower than the leading GT1 car. Same car three different run groups, 5 different classes.

At least that was the story as told in the tech shed by the crew and drivers when they came to weigh the car for each driver change.

[LD71]

Back when the Archer Bros (I believe) ran a Sedan at the Runoffs in 2 classes (c &d ?) it was very cool, with the crew changing motors each day to make the rules for different classes. Now with folks just swapping letters from the alphabet toolbox, well...that's for others to decide.
Jerry with the dilemma you describe is it far off that the club removes the rule that 1 car can't be entered in 2 clases in the same run group? More entry fees for the region?
LD71

[Matt93SE]

...it's possible STU peaked last year now that the dd Miatas moved to STL (a better fit IMO).

I agree STL is a better fit for the Miatas, but the STU thing is just a poor assumption on your part. STU's numbers are only growing here, and it has nothing to do with Miatas.
Here's a short breakdown of houston's regular STU cars:
1. Patrick Lindsey's retired World Challenge Mazda 6
2. BMW Z4
3. Solstice GXP
4. Another retired WC Mazda 6
5. Nissan 240SX (me)
6. BMW 328i
7. Audi A4
8. Retired WC VW hatch thingy (haven't seen him this year tho..)
9. 2nd Gen RX7- retired ITS car currently getting STU makeover.
10. retired WC Honda Prelude
11. Random SM double-dipper
12. That quintuple-entering Miata Jerry mentioned above

So out of 12 regular entries (we usually have 5-6 per race, pick any of the above and they could show up), only one, sometimes two are double-entering SMs.

Your region may be vastly different, but that's what I'm seeing in Houston.
There are also a couple others that are in the process of being built. one could be a Miata, could be RX7. either way, it will be a rotary, and it will be FAST.

[TStiles]

We welcome double dippers in SW Division STL , would love to have more to build the class.

Looking forward to the day when our STL field is as diverse and competitive as the STU field.

Back to the original issue ... I'm OK with STL being provisional ( or whatever you want to call it ) for the Runoffs in 2012. That's what the BoD stated when we got National status.

[LD71]

I agree STL is a better fit for the Miatas, but the STU thing is just a poor assumption on your part. STU's numbers are only growing here, and it has nothing to do with Miatas.
<snip>
So out of 12 regular entries (we usually have 5-6 per race, pick any of the above and they could show up), only one, sometimes two are double-entering SMs.

Your region may be vastly different, but that's what I'm seeing in Houston.
There are also a couple others that are in the process of being built. one could be a Miata, could be RX7. either way, it will be a rotary, and it will be FAST.

Matt,
it will be interesting to see---your re-cap is interesting. Hopefully those cars come out and race--I was looking at the participation numbers-http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/2012_National_Participation-MAY.pdf
Shows as average of 5 STU in SW Nationals, maybe I should have been clear I was talking Nationals, maybe those numbers are different. Only had time to look at the Sat Double National (?Lone Star?) and it showed 7 STU. Results are not clear as to the model of car--it looks to me like 3 or maybe 4 of those 7 were SM, maybe I'm wrong.
Cheers,
LD71

[Greg Amy]

Larry (et al) it would be SHOCKING to me if the vast majority of STL entrants in Nationals are "true" STL cars. I'm more than confident they are not. But I submit that "true" is a bit of a misnomer, as a Spec Miata entered as an STL car is still an STL entrant, just as much as my Integra is. An entrant is an entrant.

Where the significant of a "true" entrant comes in is when we get to the National Championships: if we have within-the-year STL numbers that put the class top 1/4 of the field but then have few Runoffs entries of far less than that, then I'd personally consider it a failure. Then again if the Runoffs entries are still up there and the majority of the entries are SMs or IT cars, that's perfectly fine.

Again, an entry is an entry and unless the Club wants to get into judging the "validity" of each specific entry -- a process which will have to be applied across-the-board, not just in STL/STU -- if we make the numbers then we make the numbers. If we don't, we don't.

Leverage your strengths, minimize your weaknesses.

We are starting to see "true" STL cars showing up; just this past weekend we had a new CRX enter the Regional weekend at LRP. I know of a few other Hondas being built, and even some Miatae guys that are harboring latent interest in jumping to the manly-colored panties side (the 1.6L Miata is looking interesting, given the across-the-board weight increase.) If we get BoD approval on JDM engines for 2013 it opens may other possibilities for engine swaps. Once this ball gets rolling downhill we're going to see many other unique entries popping up.

As for the whole "championship in 2012" thing, not giving STL a shot at it in 2012 was the right decision. STL was given that provisional status and placed with STU cars at the Runoffs as a concession to those that opposed the class primarily due to "too many classes". Its purpose was to see if STL could be a viable class within the National Championship program. If we had reneged on that agreement and given STL a national championship in 2012, then the very next class that asked or this opportunity would be met with "Oh no you don't! We fell for that once, we're not falling for it again! Go pound." We are going to work through this process the right way, not with end-run games.

For the 2012 Runoffs I am working to qualify for the event and enter my STL car as an STU car, and spend time there in Wisconsin supporting Super Touring in general and promoting STL specifically (I'm thinking some kind of gentleman's agreement to stick to STL prep and run some STL stickers).

It's all about the numbers...let's see what happens.

Oh, and read my signature please.

GA

[Matt93SE]

Matt,
it will be interesting to see---your re-cap is interesting. Hopefully those cars come out and race--I was looking at the participation numbers-http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/2012_National_Participation-MAY.pdf
Shows as average of 5 STU in SW Nationals, maybe I should have been clear I was talking Nationals, maybe those numbers are different. Only had time to look at the Sat Double National (?Lone Star?) and it showed 7 STU. Results are not clear as to the model of car--it looks to me like 3 or maybe 4 of those 7 were SM, maybe I'm wrong.
Cheers,
LD71

Not all race at once- usually we see about 6 STU entries at each race. I'd love to see more since I usually finish 2nd or 3rd and the class always about 1 entry short from me actually winning any contingency!
Point being, just because it says "Mazda" doesn't mean it says "Spec Miata". There were two or three Miatas on Sat, Two on Sunday. the rest were RX7s or 6s.

... Enough's enough, back to the subject.