Best Car For ITA?

[KM9]

In your opinions what do you think is the best car choice for ITA? Please comment or message.

[jhooten]

Cannot say the "M" word.

They are reliable, handle well, parts grow on trees, and decent factory support.

[erlrich]

1. Miata 1.8




2. CRX Si
3. Integra
4. Miata 1.6
5. 240SX

Anyone who builds/buys an ITA car other than a Miata is starting in the hole.

JMHO of course.

[JeffYoung]

Integras, 240sx, Miatas, CRX, Nx2000/SE-R, 325e all have their pluses and minuses and all other than the BMW have won the ARRC over the last 10 years.

I think ITA is as equal as it gets in IT racing. Pick you weapon of choice -- torque monster, RWD or FWD, etc. -- and buy one and then work on the driver. Driver is what sets these cars apart.

[Greg Amy]

Integras, 240sx, Miatas, CRX, Nx2000/SE-R, 325e

Jeff made me LOL. I'll tell you exactly how to build one, in excruciating detail, all while telling you it's the absolutely wrong choice. The time for that car - as well as others in that list - is long past.

Only one choice: 1.8L Miata, for many reasons other than it's the obvious outstanding competitive package. It's the only car I would consider building from scratch for ITA. Anything else is pissing in the wind.

GA

[JeffYoung]

I don't know. Seems like a lot of folks pissing in the wind have won the ARRC the last 10 years, while a lot of Miatas have not.

I get its a great car, have driven a few and have been on track with a few of the best.

Only car to build? Clearly not. I would even grant you that it might have a slight advantage over others, but nothing that excellent setup and driving has not been able to overcome.

[Chip42]

the miata is the easy button but it's not the only thing capable of the task. the "Earp Method" might lead one to look at the 86-87 cavalier Z-24 using the GenII 2.8L V6. It wouldn't last more than a season before the non IT-ness of the specline (saturn rear brake allowances??) and, likely, the weight, were corrected (other GMs with this engine come in ~100-200lbs heavier) but with the bomber class guys out there at the roundy rounds, there's bound to be some good tuning knowledge on these things. handling would be OK, brakes (assuming stock) are not a strong point but appear acceptable, and screw manufacturer support, you can rebuild these from on the shelf parts at your friendly local autoparts store for CHEAP.

no, I'd never drive one. I'd get a miata.

[lateapex911]

Jeff, I hear your point, but, I think the question is,
Alll things being equal...maxxed setup, maxxed tires, best driver etc etc. which car is the best?

I think you are saying that the driver and such are important and can overcome 'the wrong choice".
Maybe, but, if somebody said, "Jeff, this will be a 3 year program, and we want to win the ARRC each year with our name on the side. You are the driver. Pick the car, and we will fund the best of everything".
Which mainstream car do you think has the best chance, eliminating oddballs that might have the wrong weight and such.

[JeffYoung]

I'd look for a high displacement, low revving RWD chassis with good brakes and a reasonable suspension design. In my/our experience these cars see really good gains in IT trim.

On the Miata, I don't like the lack of torque, or that the car basically seems to come to a halt in 5th gear (whether that is aero or otherwise). The rest of the package is outstanding.

I think the Miata is the easy button, and perhaps even has a slight advantage when built to the max against other 100% builds. But nothing driver or setup can't overcome in my opinion, and I think the ARRC results over the years bear it out. I still believe 100% what I said above. I think a 100% built to the max Integra/SR20/240sx/CRX/325e/Miata has a shot at the ARRC. I think the Moser/Muresan/Ruck/Amy/Price/Hoppe battles over the last few years have proven that.

I also think a bunch of very highly competitive individuals are all looking for the slightest advantage to win whenever they show up, rather than have parity. Parity to a highly competitive person isn't good enough. They want an advantage. I think you see that in a lot of of the discussion amongst the front runners about these cars. The CRXen complain about the SR20 power who complain about the Miata handling who complain about the balance of the 240sx and so on.

[R2 Racing]

I'm still quite partial to the Integra, and I'm still working on mine (if my f'ing parts ever show up!). But given Jake's hypothetical situation above, it would be tough for me to not pick the 1.8 Miata. I'd have one major hangup about it though: Can I drive it? I'll openly admit that I know very little about driving RWD on track.

[Knestis]

Jeff and Jake are both right. If ALL other factors were held equal, the Miata is probably the better option. In the real world, those factors are almost never controlled. When any truly competitive car/driver package runs up front in IT, it's MORE because of driver skill, car preparation, the "knowledge base," and budget than it is because of the name badge and the factors that come along with it.

K

EDIT - the best ITA car might be this

[joeg]

That "Opel Saturn"??

OMG...worse car I ever test drove!

[JLawton]

I'd have one major hangup about it though: Can I drive it? I'll openly admit that I know very little about driving RWD on track.

Piece of cake............. It is sooooo easy to drive. If you got into a well built Miata you'd be winning in no time. It's not rocket science.





.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Jeff will let you know how easy once he gets within a second or two of his best times in the Saturn...

If you have never driven RWD, it is certainly different. Once you get the feel, you won't have to manhandle the car to get it to do the things you need it to do to be fast.

Keep working on the Teg. The Mosers reached a whole 'nother level of development a couple years ago after a decade with the CRX. You have an ARRC-winning car that you know has more to do to it given your Prod experience. It's never over.

[gran racing]

LOL!! As often said, it's easy to drive it to 98%.

you won't have to manhandle the car to get it to do the things you need it to do to be fast.

Jeff has mentioned how he needed to drive his FWD cars. I never felt that way with my Prelude. Now that SSC Civic I briefly drove...OMG.

[R2 Racing]

If you got into a well built Miata you'd be winning in no time. It's not rocket science.

Yeah, that would be swell to one day win some races.

Keep working on the Teg. The Mosers reached a whole 'nother level of development a couple years ago after a decade with the CRX. You have an ARRC-winning car that you know has more to do to it given your Prod experience. It's never over.

They had more like 15 years into those cars - Joe won his first ARRC in '99. Most of the new ideas I have with the ITA Integra are certainly coming from my time with the FP Integra. If I can start getting the ITA's front end to consistently work like the FP's front end......damn.

[Knestis]

That "Opel Saturn"??

OMG...worse car I ever test drove!

My point is that it's impossible until until someone does it.

Jeff L turned a tupperware GM product into a winner. Jeff Y did the same with wedge-shaped Anglo-American mutant. Etc.

K

[erlrich]

Only one choice: 1.8L Miata, for many reasons other than it's the obvious outstanding competitive package. It's the only car I would consider building from scratch for ITA. Anything else is pissing in the wind.

I would even grant you that it might have a slight advantage over others

...it would be tough for me to not pick the 1.8 Miata.

I think the Miata is the easy button, and perhaps even has a slight advantage when built to the max against other 100% builds.

If ALL other factors were held equal, the Miata is probably the better option.

I'm starting to see a trend here...

Like others have stated, regardless of which car you choose you still have to build it right, set it up right, and drive the wheels off it to beat the best. Going with the Miata won't make you an instant/automatic winner; no car will. But I think it's pretty clear which is the best one to start with.

[CRallo]

Pontiac Fire Arrow!! or maybe Geo Prism GSi

I still think the later Fiero stands a chance.

Piece of cake............. It is sooooo easy to drive. If you got into a well built Miata you'd be winning in no time. It's not rocket science.

It only seems easy cuz you are going so slow!!!



.

My point is that it's impossible until until someone does it.

Jeff L and Matt Kessler turned a tupperware GM product into a winner. Jeff Y did the same with wedge-shaped Anglo-American mutant. Etc.

K

Fixed that. and it was Kessler HP in Amy's SR, though Greg did a decent job of driving a car that was trying to kill him!

[JeffYoung]

Probably true in all IT classes. One car has a slight advantage if built and setup and driven to the max.

There's no way for us to balance all of this stuff equally. And doing so would be rather "prod like."

Get'em close and let'em race. That's what we have and it sure seems to work well. Diversity in ITA "winners" is pretty damn high right now.

I'm starting to see a trend here...

Like others have stated, regardless of which car you choose you still have to build it right, set it up right, and drive the wheels off it to beat the best. Going with the Miata won't make you an instant/automatic winner; no car will. But I think it's pretty clear which is the best one to start with.