New IT class revealed at National Convention

[downingracing]

..The biggest problem scca has is to many events. Cut the supply of events down and the # of racers per event will go up. And the interest in scca may go up as well. Chris Howard

Maybe... But at least for me, I pick the events on the schedule that I want to do on the weekends I can be available. If there are less SCCA events that fall on weekends I'm available, I do less events. I'd bet that others would consider running with another club if they had an available weekend and the other club had an offering...

[jhooten]

The biggest problem scca has is to many events. Cut the supply of events down and the # of racers per event will go up. And the interest in scca may go up as well.
Chris Howard

I disagreed with the area director when he said this and I disagree you. However I will concede the situation may be different in your area.

Our 4 tracks are spread way out. The closest is an 80 mile tow for me and the farthest is about 250. That is just for in division races. Our 16 weekend schedule lets me pick and choose which races at which tracks I can attend based on work, family, and other conflicting events. If we only had 8 race weekends it would be extremely difficult to make enough races to qualify for the divisional championship. Maybe retirement will change that but I doubt it.

And IF we cut down on our winter races where would the snow birds have to go?

[Flyinglizard]

I see the same track rats at the track, no matter who is puttin on the weekend. So I dont think that SCCA has too many events. (FL.)
Track time per day is really weak with SCCA. I see that somebody else also mentioned the NASA 4sessions per day, with 4 or 5 groups. NASA treats it's racers like customers it wants back. We seem to treat them like a PITA.
I dont know how to change it. but dead time at the track does not help.
Todays kids, and even I, like to get on track , not sit around in the sun.
There is way too much of" That's how we do it"
It should be " how can we do it better?"
Just like a "talk around" post race or hot lap, with my drivers. We go over each area of the track, and see what can be better.
When you think that you had a perfect corner, you may as well stop racing.
Same with a race weekend. Maybe we should actually talk to the youngest people and newest members and see what is liked and what could be improved. There is no way to improve , if you dont look for ways.
For a start; NASA and Chump has sat evening trophy handouts and a small gathering of the racers to laugh and drink a beer or eat a hot dog.
Most of the best/fun events I have been involved with had similar.

I doubt that SCCA can draw much from Chumpcar. The racers are a different frame of mind. SCCA is a bunch of lawyers, Chumps are a big bunch of care free racers, (some lawyers ). Some Chumps have Lots of money but dont want to be hassled by the little games and ladders of SCCA.
They just write a check and race.

Also; You can fly an airplane with a drivers license medical, but you cant race a car with SCCA. That should get a real look if SCCA wants to compete for these newer clients. We still have more heart attacks than anyone else, how is the med doing anything other than raising the entry bar/hassle expense?
The med test could be; get out of the car in less than 20sec with a bag over the helmet.

I do see a small opportunity for Chumpcar racers; The Chump format requires 4 drivers. Some of the time,2 or 3 may not be very good. The best driver may want to race a solo event. Mine does. Maybe tailor a 4 session weekend to have two drivers split the car. That allows the team to be together and for two drivers to run the car. This makes the most sense,as i type it.
SCCA would still need to; Credit the race time for school time on track
Copy the success of the team effort
Copy the "medical success" somehow
Copy the track time density, better.
Have a small party for trophies. Give out top three no matter how many are in the class.Duh.

SCCA will still need to advertise in some relevant places. grass roots, Road and track Inet. Chumpcar forum.. Make it not the secretsports car club.

I would be happy to help set the basic rules and format.
MM

[lateapex911]

Also; You can fly an airplane with a drivers license medical, but you cant race a car with SCCA. That should get a real look if SCCA wants to compete for these newer clients. We still have more heart attacks than anyone else, how is the med doing anything other than raising the entry bar/hassle expense?
The med test could be; get out of the car in less than 20sec with a bag over the helmet.


MM

I agree with you on this one.
Thats an area that has really caused me pause with the SCCA. Are they REALLY concerned with safety? The insistence on running a H&NR, proper suit and proper cages says "yes".
The fact that I'll have to spend nearly $2 thousand and I'll be LESS safe than I was BEFORE the mandate, says, "not really", we're really just as concerned with political stuff.
And the fact that more drivers die from on track 'self inflicted'* medical events than are killed by basilar skull fracture, and fire combined tells me, "no".

And before you say, "Well, thats because the rules require a H&NR device, so of course basilar skull fracture death is low", I'm talking about the period before they were mandated.

This might be a harsh thing to say but, each and every time this is brought up, it gets NO play. The higher ups look the other way. Roll their eyes. It's the dirty little big secret in the Secret Car Club of America.
Why??
Because we are old. The guys who the rule will hurt are the guys who write the rule. For many, a REAL stress test to determine the suitability of one to operate a racing car in extreme heat, etc, will be a fail. No more racing.
Furhter, it's my suspicion that the ruleswriters are fearful that a legitimate "line in the sand" will eliminate far more than just the rulesmakers...it will have a significant effect on entries.
Finally, it's the old schools last stand. The right to die doing something you love. How can we take that away? And who believes those stupid stress tests anyway? Get off my lawn.

(And there's merit to that position, IF the only guy to go is the guy having the incident. But many others are affected, even tangentially. The corner worker who finds the dead body. The event which might be delayed and stopped early, and those who run it. The track and the investigators. The family who lost a loved one possibly a decade early. And then there's the collateral damage aspect. Suppose the car jerks right...down pit lane, at 100, and strikes grid workers or pit workers...it could be a tragedy. Longshot? yea, odds are against it, but....)

I have written in and requested that we be required to attach all of our devices, and then get out as you suggested. It was rejected. The SCCA stated that such a requirement would run afoul of the "Americans with disabilities act" and that the club could be sued by somebody for not allowing equal access to the activities that it sanctions.
Kirk Knestis followed up with a nearly identical request. This time, the answer was that the club "Saw no need for such a standard". (or something similar, perhaps Kirk can be more exact.

Simple bottom line in life and in this case, people do what they want to do. I don't think the club is interested in any such test, for various reasons.

* By "self inflicted" I mean that no outside event caused the incident, it was a medical seizure/ heart attack or the like.

[rydermike]

Even the FAA took away the medical certification for SOME of the recreational flier;s out there, a drivers license is now good enough if you meet all the other training requierments (At least 20 hours of instruction , previously 40 hour min) for a "Sport Pilot" ticket. And I believe it is just a matter of time before other private pilot licenses follow that path once there is a pattern that the sport pilot guys have no more in flight medical incidents that those with medical certs.And being most street people have zero clue on what SCCA is.

[Simon T.]

Track time per day is really weak with SCCA. I see that somebody else also mentioned the NASA 4sessions per day, with 4 or 5 groups. NASA treats it's racers like customers it wants back. We seem to treat them like a PITA.

I'm going to guess you haven't ran a NASA event. lol

[Flyinglizard]

The last 4 NASA weekends were 3 sat and 2 sun. (For SM)
Simon, If you have something to say, just say it. Pleae dont imply anything, spew facts. Thanks, MM

[Simon T.]

The last 4 NASA weekends were 3 sat and 2 sun. (For SM)
Simon, If you have something to say, just say it. Pleae dont imply anything, spew facts. Thanks, MM

I've just never had any good experience with NASA, my first impression of them was horrible and not much has changed, I'm not the only one either. NASA wants money, nothing more. Their safety is questionable to the point where I'm not sure I'd even feel safe running another event with them, at least not around here, some of the stories I've heard amaze me. It's not my spot to tell all the details about what I've seen or heard.

NASA appeals to the younger crowd because of the HPDE, time trials, and for those that want to road race the classes allow more freedom modifying.

The only real appeal NASA wise to me is the endurance racing, typically longer than the SCCA enduros and they run a 8 hour at Road Atlanta every December that brings some big teams out. Aside from that though I have no interest.

Someone once told me "If you want to race, race with the SCCA, if you want to dick around, play with NASA."

[Flyinglizard]

Ran last weekend with NASA, @ Sebring;
Nice guy @ tech, nice people @ reg.
3 sesssions sat, 1 race
4 sessions sun , 2 races.
No wrecks..
They had a driver meeting stating the passing policy and that any contact had to fillout paperwork.
Track was hot all day. The group that was coming off, was checkered and the next group was let on, overlapping with a pace car between the groups. The pregrid was moved to the EMT house road so that traffic did not cross.
50 to 60 cars per group.
Very efficient, well run two days.
The system was not perfect; The pace car bunched up the race group for qualifying. We sat in the pits until the group came around T 17. So the waiting went from(SCCA) sitting in the grid, to rolling around the track, bunched up.
The day is "time priority" not "race priority" . If someone went off hard or leaked all over the track the timed session would stay the same.
CFR SCCA, tries to get a race in regardless of the wrecks. But waste a lot of time clearing the track between groups. Esp @ long tracks like Sebring. Lime Rock had a more flowing on and off track system.
NASA had 4-5 Ferraris ,.lots more $.
I did not take the Chumpcar. Too much going on.
Plenty safe, plenty nice. IMHO. We could/should learn from them.

[ericblois]

im from the area, Oregon that is. im surprised no one has said that the region also added a Drift run group so now the local drifter have a group to run in. I race with ICSCC in the area and our car counts are about 3-4 times that of SCCA. this should be good for all of us racers in the northwest. NASA and PCA BWCCA none of them hold races in the northwest so we are stuck with SCCA, ICSCC and now chump and lemons. I have an ITA bmw and i can say almost every one of the chump cars in the area are at least as built as my ITA car is. they dont have a min weight so they are all supper light.
I now have 7 (8 if you count Bremerton which is an old airport runway) tracks with in 500 miles of my home so its all depends on who i want to race with and how many races my wallet can afford. closest to farthest PIR, ORP, The ridge, Bremerton, PR, mission , Spokane and Thunderhill.

[RacerBill]

Even the FAA took away the medical certification for SOME of the recreational flier;s out there, a drivers license is now good enough if you meet all the other training requierments (At least 20 hours of instruction , previously 40 hour min) for a "Sport Pilot" ticket. And I believe it is just a matter of time before other private pilot licenses follow that path once there is a pattern that the sport pilot guys have no more in flight medical incidents that those with medical certs.And being most street people have zero clue on what SCCA is.

For 2012, SCCA changed the physical requirements from every two years or every year to every three years, every two years, or every year (if you're over 70). Cut the number of physicals in half. Of course I get a physical every year, cause my insurance provides that at zero cost - just don't have to send in the paperwork.

Not a giant change, but still a change towards what people are asking for.

[forestdweller37]

im from the area, Oregon that is. im surprised no one has said that the region also added a Drift run group so now the local drifter have a group to run in. I race with ICSCC in the area and our car counts are about 3-4 times that of SCCA. this should be good for all of us racers in the northwest. NASA and PCA BWCCA none of them hold races in the northwest so we are stuck with SCCA, ICSCC and now chump and lemons. I have an ITA bmw and i can say almost every one of the chump cars in the area are at least as built as my ITA car is. they dont have a min weight so they are all supper light.

Are you seeing much interest in the ITJ class out there?

[Knestis]

Looks like 20% of the cars in the group at the March PIR Regional were ITJ cars.

http://www.oregonscca.com/media-libr...lts12marg6.pdf

And for consideration, the best SCCA Regional results sheet EVAH!

http://www.oregonscca.com/media-libr...lts12marg2.pdf

I'd laugh out loud but it's a pretty sad statement about the health of the club on the west coast.

K

[Flyinglizard]

10 cars in the group? The 2 J cars had a good race it looks like.
Really sad. Time for a big change in direction maybe.

[Knestis]

You can certainly see why they might be willing to try new things, eh?

K

[lateapex911]

10 cars in the group? The 2 J cars had a good race it looks like.
Really sad. Time for a big change in direction maybe.

Wow. Out of 10 cars, 7 got first place trophies! (1 was a DNF)
Ouch. Whats the point?

[Z3_GoCar]

Wow. Out of 10 cars, 7 got first place trophies! (1 was a DNF)
Ouch. Whats the point?

They're out racing?? Not all regions have full fields. I don't know how busy NASA events are in the North West, but in California they easily have 2-3 times the cars in the paddock. Same with 24hrs of Lemons events. I've seen lots of 10 car and under fields, but never a one car field.

[Flyinglizard]

Most of the outsiders @ the SCCA club races say that we have too many classes.
Is that it? Too many classes IT, Prod, STU, STL, GT, SS, Too much cost to run at the front.
Why?
I agree.

Lemons has 3 classes, Slow, Med, Mod. They get many cars.
The Chumps have one class. I want to add a big and a small bore class and leave it like that, But no love for the 2 classes yet.
Idont know the answer.
One class, cheap tires, cheap cars, and cheap gas, all seem to add racers. New and old.
I do know that lack of rule nerds are an asset. I have quit running my cars in IT because I just dont like the little nit picking about the rules. Horns, evap bottles, etc.
I have chosen to play in production( with my IT cars) as a result. Maybe I am not the only one. WE have way more rentals of the Chump seats than the IT or Prod cars.

Maybe consider running the ITJ class as a regional class with DOT 190 tires, 7 in wheels( for all cars), as the wheel size limits the applied power of the big cars.
MM

[Z3_GoCar]

Good point Mike... but how many classes are being run at the NASA events?

AI, PT E, D, C, B, A.. GTS 5, 4,3,2,1... Spec Miata, Spec e-30, Pro-3, Spec 7... E 0, 1, 2, 3... All the BMW Club Racing Classes... All the TT classes... All the HPDE drivers...

Lots of production car based classes, no formula car/sports racer classes, but generally, the mis-mash of classes is the same. I think what really has helped NASA grow so much is the youth appeal... as in it's attracted the fans of the cars that have previously been given short shrift in the bureaucracy that's grown up around the SCCA.

BTW... it's been over a year and a half since anyone posted in the Pacific Region subfolder

[ericblois]

There is no NASA in the northwest but there is ICSCC which is only in the northwest, and as car counts go they have a class like Nasa's specE30 and that class normal size is over 20. ITA has been in the upper 20 now in in the upper teens. there is a new class ST which is anything goes with 10:1 power to weight and they are now up to about 10 cars in class. 944 cup has jumped ship from scca to run with ICSCC and SM is strong normally in the upper teens