To build or not to build

[HQHITA]

Gentlemen, I'm new here. I have tried searching, but to no avail.

I have in my possession a 95 Civic DX hatchback. I wanted to convert it to Si spec and run it in ITA. I have a z6 motor, tranny, I have the rear disc brakes, I have the proportioning valve, power steering rack, basically everything I need (except for a sunroof) all sitting outside the car.

Is the 92-95 EG Si competitive in ITA? Is it even legal for me to do conversion?

Should I abandon ship (sell the car, and all the parts) before I even get started?

I don't mind doing the work, mainly I want to know if it will be competitive. I can't really find any results or info on them which leads me to believe that I am answering my own question...

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
J

[Chip42]

why not leave it a DX and run ITB? less work, and also a good class with a lot of competition in many parts fo the country. the EG Si is a good car in ITA, though, yes. having a stock, solid-roof car as an Si will be at best questionably legal, though most people wouldn't object I don't think. also don't forget the differe control arms, steering rack,...

[Knestis]

I'd recommend sticking with B as well. That car is a drop-dead great option there.

THAT SAID, there are good IT cars out there for less money than you will spend to build one - even if you value your time at $0/hr. The price of the car is just a fraction of the total build cost.

Tristan Herbert has his ITB VW Golf for sale, which has demonstrated it's one of the best in the nation. (Check the classifieds here.) If you find yourself suffering from sticker shock looking at used race car prices, be warned that building (whatever) will cost 2x or more to achieve the same "sum of the parts" as buying.

Good luck!

Kirk

[joeg]

Where are you "J"??

There are many used built good IT cars for sale. Buy your first car.

[JohnW8]

I agree with buying a car being the cheaper alternative but I can say I've spent a lot of money fixing things on my "race-ready" car to suit me that makes building a car not seem so expensive.

And keep in mind building a car you will know every nut and bolt on it and know it's done right from the start.

There are 2 sides to everything.

[lateapex911]

While it seems you have "all the parts", ready to go, be careful.
Make a list:
Include on it things like
A racing radiator, an oil system/cooler/accusump.
The engine build.
The dyno time tweaking the tuning, the intake the exhaust, etc.
The cage, the seat, the safety stuff. Fire bottle.
SetS of wheels.
Tires.
Super jammy shocks.
Coilovers and race springs.
Strut tower plates, or similar.
Custom machined suspension bushings.
Super custom (or off the shelf) sway bar and other suspension bits.
Custom exhaust header and system.
Replacements for your hubs, bearings, brakes, pads, fluid, lines (Stainless steel at the wheels)
A different final drive and some form of ltd slip.


That's just off the top of my head. Now, you may say, "Well, I don't plan on being competitive first season so I don't need a built engine" (or similar). OK, fine, but, if you are competitive (uh, you want to race, so I'd assume you're competitive, ), you will be going through the car adding the stuff I listed.
In the end, you WILL spend more for the same thing. Now, you might spread it out over two years, but, $20K is still more than $11K, no matter when and how long it takes to get there.
Some say" "I want to build so I know the car". Buy, then spend a weekend taking stuff apart and cleaning it, then putting it back together, you'll know it well.

[bamfp]

I am in the process of building a 92-95 Civic EX for ITA right now. I hope to have out at the end of April. I think it will make a good addition to ITA.

But like others have said it would also make a great ITB car. Cost run either one should be about the same. The B version might be a little cheaper.

[gran racing]

Buy. There are several cars out on the market which you simply can't get even close to after building something especially if you want a competitive car.

I'm having a hard time emotionally parting with my car which is why I haven't been more actively trying to sell it, but with a different ride for the next two years I guess it's time to part ways. I'll be listing it for a bit less than what's posted on here (in my sig).

[HQHITA]

why not leave it a DX and run ITB? less work, and also a good class with a lot of competition in many parts fo the country. the EG Si is a good car in ITA, though, yes. having a stock, solid-roof car as an Si will be at best questionably legal, though most people wouldn't object I don't think. also don't forget the differe control arms, steering rack,...

Mainly because I thought more people ran ITA. I'm in Orlando like you. I thought I had seen more participants in ITA in recent races. Also i thought ita was faster than ITB and thus more fun.

I figure the cost to build both cars are somewhat similar. I don't want to piss people off if my car doesn't have a sunroof. I would hate for people to think I am cheating. Don't we have to remove a sunroof anyways though?

I might contact you about a roll cage if I pull the trigger on this thing.

[HQHITA]

I'd recommend sticking with B as well. That car is a drop-dead great option there.

THAT SAID, there are good IT cars out there for less money than you will spend to build one - even if you value your time at $0/hr. The price of the car is just a fraction of the total build cost.

Tristan Herbert has his ITB VW Golf for sale, which has demonstrated it's one of the best in the nation. (Check the classifieds here.) If you find yourself suffering from sticker shock looking at used race car prices, be warned that building (whatever) will cost 2x or more to achieve the same "sum of the parts" as buying.

Good luck!

Kirk

Thanks man. I agree with you that buying a car is cheaper. That's not making my decision easier. That sounds like a great car, but I'm partially obligated to run Honda for work and cost reasons (I sell them).

[HQHITA]

Where are you "J"??

There are many used built good IT cars for sale. Buy your first car.

Sorry, Orlando, FL. I saw an ITA CRX for sale that is pretty cheap. Just kind of far from me. Could be a good option too...

https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=29574

Anyone know this car? Looks a little beat up, but has tons of spares...

[HQHITA]

I agree with buying a car being the cheaper alternative but I can say I've spent a lot of money fixing things on my "race-ready" car to suit me that makes building a car not seem so expensive.

And keep in mind building a car you will know every nut and bolt on it and know it's done right from the start.

There are 2 sides to everything.

I agree 100% with this. I have access to a great shop, and I think the guys would like building it as well. Plus I would know the idiosyncrasies of the car...

[philstireservice]

First off - faster isn't always more fun. It's all relative. I know someone in Florida that says ITB is quite popular and to boot, we are building new wheels for the Honda's.....

[HQHITA]

While it seems you have "all the parts", ready to go, be careful.
Make a list:
Include on it things like
A racing radiator, an oil system/cooler/accusump.
The engine build.
The dyno time tweaking the tuning, the intake the exhaust, etc.
The cage, the seat, the safety stuff. Fire bottle.
SetS of wheels.
Tires.
Super jammy shocks.
Coilovers and race springs.
Strut tower plates, or similar.
Custom machined suspension bushings.
Super custom (or off the shelf) sway bar and other suspension bits.
Custom exhaust header and system.
Replacements for your hubs, bearings, brakes, pads, fluid, lines (Stainless steel at the wheels)
A different final drive and some form of ltd slip.


That's just off the top of my head. Now, you may say, "Well, I don't plan on being competitive first season so I don't need a built engine" (or similar). OK, fine, but, if you are competitive (uh, you want to race, so I'd assume you're competitive, ), you will be going through the car adding the stuff I listed.
In the end, you WILL spend more for the same thing. Now, you might spread it out over two years, but, $20K is still more than $11K, no matter when and how long it takes to get there.
Some say" "I want to build so I know the car". Buy, then spend a weekend taking stuff apart and cleaning it, then putting it back together, you'll know it well.

Great advice. Those are in the budget (mine not wifeys!!!)

[Knestis]

An ITA car isn't enough faster than an ITB car to be inherently more fun. Make your pick based on competition. That's what's ULTIMATELY more fun.

K

[HQHITA]

So it seems that the general consensus is:
1. Car would be competitive in ITA
2. Car would also be competitive in ITB.
3. Legality of the car is somewhat in question in ITA because of the lack of the sunroof which we have to remove regardless.
4. Much more expensive to build vs. buy

[HQHITA]

An ITA car isn't enough faster than an ITB car to be inherently more fun. Make your pick based on competition. That's what's ULTIMATELY more fun.

K

I agree. Thats the whole reason I wanted to get into ITA. I just checked a couple results for Sebring and ITA is almost twice as many participants as ITB...

[Matt93SE]

yeah, pretty much.

Also keep in mind ITA and ITB are almost always on the track at the same time. If you want to race the other guys, just pretend the sticker on the door says something else, and don't get in the way if there's an in-class battle somewhere in the top 3-4 positions. (If you get between me and the leader and cost me contingency money or a #1 trophy, then expect to get an earful...)

But yeah, everything else you've mentioned is spot-on. It's a LOT cheaper to buy a running car than to build one. For the price of the cage in my car, I could have bought one of three different pro-built chassis that have come up for sale in the last year or two. If I were doing it over again, I would most certainly buy one of those chassis and then put my preferred brand of engine/suspension/etc goodies on it.

[HQHITA]

What's the best place to find cars for sale. I checked this forum, but there are only a couple of cars

[gran racing]

Word of mouth. Even when some of us are kind of in the market to sell our cars, we have formed such ties to them we don't exactly try to hard. (Raises hand.) Weird how the For Sales signs were brought to a few events I attended but never made it on the car. It's also hard for many people to sell a car because the cars are being listed at 1/2 or less than what was spent financially, then there's a TON of time spent on the development aspect.

To give you an idea, looking at a car build spreadsheet with a guy who is not slow at doing things, already has the donor car, doesn't need to spend much time researching development issues, and so forth is estimating 200 hours for the build not including any painting. I think it's going to add up to more than that. Note: this is for a really well built car.

Sometimes you can post here what you're looking for and if anyone knows where you one might be found; also attend events and ask competitors. Oh, and do NOT discount shipping cars or making a weekend trip going to get one yourself. You might be surprised with how reasonable some shipping companies are.