Eurasian Engines - Proposal?

[Greg Amy]

Prof, not too worried about your scenario. yes, it could be significant, but in the end it's on the far end of the Bell curve...and being National racing, we all know what happens on the far end of the Bell curve...

- GA

[adamjabaay]

I really shouldn't have read this thread.


Ha

[Chip42]

I always read "Retrofitting OEM complete gear sets in an alternate transmission case is permitted (9.1.4.3.E.3)" as all of the gears from one box into another, presumably for fitment purposes. mix n match opens bigger doors. good / bad is debatable.

that said -
if anyone is considering a D series, go out and dig up HF or 4spds boxes and those from ZCs because they combine with Si boxes to have the gears you'll want for a close ratio 5spd.

Toyota C boxes will be fun... something like 28 years and MANY models running this family, with a lot of part interchangeability.

I'm betting there are more than a few VW combos available, too.

I'm with adam... shouldn't have read.

[Greg Amy]

I always read "Retrofitting OEM complete gear sets in an alternate transmission case is permitted (9.1.4.3.E.3)" as all of the gears from one box into another, presumably for fitment purposes.

Need to keep up with the latest regs, Chip...we changed it to remove that "complete" from "gear sets"...you can now mix n match gears. That was intentional.

- GA

[webhound]

I'm with adam... shouldn't have read.

Count me in.

[Xian]

The intent is that you can take any pairs of gears and mix-n-match into whatever box they'll fit into, assuming no mods to make it fit. so you can take the first gear from the CRX and the second from the ITR, and the third from the Integra, ad nauseum....we talked about the verbiage and decided that "sets" made more sense than "pairs"; if you can think of a better way to word it, please suggest...

Key philosophical basis: bolt in and it's OK. Gotta start machining parts/shafts/case to make it fit? No bueno.

- GA

Cool. The current wording makes more sense understanding that the word "complete" was removed intentially.

I don't know nearly enough about the boxes and gear ratios offered to say anything more than "interesting". There's certainly some room there to maximize the specific ratio choices with FD and tire package. With data aq being as cheap as it is, this shouldn't be too tough for anyone serious about STL.

Just occured to me, one potential limiting factor for folks will be whether they can get legit documentation that their ratio choices are, in fact, factory pieces. Let's say that VW did offer some super awesome homologation special in Europe. Are you going to be able to get documentation to support the specific ratios offered? I dunno (seriously, I don't) but I imagine that this could be a stumbling block for some parts/options.

PS
I'm sure Bone could whip together an awesome D-series box and have some great ideas for a B-series box.

[Xian]

I really shouldn't have read this thread.


Ha

Count me in.

You're all welcome?

[webhound]

You're all welcome?

eff you

Cool. The current wording makes more sense understanding that the word "complete" was removed intentially.

I don't know nearly enough about the boxes and gear ratios offered to say anything more than "interesting". There's certainly some room there to maximize the specific ratio choices with FD and tire package. With data aq being as cheap as it is, this shouldn't be too tough for anyone serious about STL.

Just occured to me, one potential limiting factor for folks will be whether they can get legit documentation that their ratio choices are, in fact, factory pieces. Let's say that VW did offer some super awesome homologation special in Europe. Are you going to be able to get documentation to support the specific ratios offered? I dunno (seriously, I don't) but I imagine that this could be a stumbling block for some parts/options.

PS
I'm sure Bone could whip together an awesome D-series box and have some great ideas for a B-series box.

Even just a JDM ZC box is different enough than the USDM to be....different. Am I wrong to expect some substantial track dependence on how one set works vs another?

I do know, however, that my 5 speed set (ITB ) will work a LOT better than the 4 speed (ITC) box in my EF hatch. Everywhurrr.

Will

[Knestis]

Need to keep up with the latest regs, Chip...we changed it to remove that "complete" from "gear sets"...you can now mix n match gears. That was intentional.

- GA

Oh, crap - I missed that, too. That changes things, and does indeed remove my previous concern re: euro 'boxes.

Kirk (who's now distracted by STL again)

EDIT - The homologation special options will still have some clout. Take a look at http://www.scirocco.org/gears/ and scroll down to "VW Motorsport." Bwah, hah, haaaah!

[Xian]

eff you

Even just a JDM ZC box is different enough than the USDM to be....different. Am I wrong to expect some substantial track dependence on how one set works vs another?

I do know, however, that my 5 speed set (ITB ) will work a LOT better than the 4 speed (ITC) box in my EF hatch. Everywhurrr.

Will

I don't know that I'd say "substantial" and, if I'm honest, I'd expect there to be potentially less track dependency than a FD can play in IT. I suspect that with the ability to tweak all the ratios, you can find a compromise gearbox that's good everywhere. The "gold" setup in my mind would be a 2-5 gear cluster that, with the right FD, keeps the engine inside it's optimum powerband everywhere on track. You may still end up with an outlier track that necessitates a different FD for optimum performance or different 2-5 gearing (i.e. Daytona) but for most people I think one tranny should be just fine. And, again, this is no different than IT where a CRX+4.7 works perfect at Daytona but you want a 4.9 for Road Atlanta and many other SE tracks.

[Rabbit07]

Kirk (who's now distracted by STL again)

It's working......mad scientist laugh!.........