Eurasian Engines - Proposal?

[lateapex911]

Non-US engines, if approved, will be on a case-by-case approval basis, and all allowed engines will have to be investigated prior to allowance. All engine specs, such as compression ratio and camshaft lift, will still have to be met (i.e., if the stock Euro-cam has too much valve lift, you will not be allowed to run it). As you noted, without prior research there's no way to know if another sub-2L engine can/will produce more than what the class currently allows; that limit is inferentially around 170 hp*.


* That just my WAG; there's no hard-coded limit. That is based on the fact that the Integra GS-R's 170hp is allowed, but the Type R's 190hp is not. On the other hand, we just approved the 220(?)hp Renesis in STL at a very high weight (3000+?) so that "horsepower limit" is quite grey right now...

The way I've come to think of it is that the grand Poobah who dreamed up the concept and drew the line in the sand for numbers based it on the numbers Greg mentioned, BUT, what he REALLY did was to base it on 1.8 liter engines than can breath to that level. I say that since, as Greg points out, the higher hp version Type Arrrr, is forbidden, as is the S2000 version Making 120hp/litre) And they clearly feel there is something OTHER than cams and compression that make those numbers happen.

Now the Renesis motor is an interesting addition. IT makes 210 (WHP) or so in IT trim. Stock, it's under 200, by a significant amount, I think. Which, if in stock form, put's it right in the TEg engine wheelhouse. What was the reason for the extreme weight, I wonder?

[Andy Bettencourt]

What was the reason for the extreme weight, I wonder?

They don't want rotards. They want them as field fillers, but not real competitors. They specifically only allow piston engines but put them in at crazy weights to give people places to play without a chance of competitiveness.

It's simple.

[StephenB]

Honest question which may be answered by Andy's answer...

Why can the S2000 run at ITR spec but the RX8 has to add weight? Why can't I run my RX8 as an ITR car?

Stephen

PS: Jake you are spot on for IT gains and stock they have 170-180. Biggest issue with any Rotary Dyno number is that none are really set up for them specifically so the user error is pretty high.

[lateapex911]

Honest question which may be answered by Andy's answer...

Why can the S2000 run at ITR spec but the RX8 has to add weight? Why can't I run my RX8 as an ITR car?

Stephen

PS: Jake you are spot on for IT gains and stock they have 170-180. Biggest issue with any Rotary Dyno number is that none are really set up for them specifically so the user error is pretty high.

Well, you know how I know, right? The thing committee guys do called homework.

[Greg Amy]

Why can the S2000 run at ITR spec but the RX8 has to add weight? Why can't I run my RX8 as an ITR car?

Displacement. The "displacement equivalency" of a rotary engine is 2x, thus your "1.3L" Renesis is actually considered to be 2.6L and is thus ineligible for STL absent the specific allowance(s). You are allowed to run it in STU as an ITR car.

In my personal opinion, the philosophy of Super Touring engines is one of allowed intake/engine modifications and classification based purely on displacement. Thus, in my mind an unmodified rotary engine does not fit into the philosophy of STL on two fronts.

But, obviously, that's only one person's opinion.

GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

Honest question which may be answered by Andy's answer...

Why can the S2000 run at ITR spec but the RX8 has to add weight? Why can't I run my RX8 as an ITR car?

Stephen

So Greg answered a bit but let me simplify for you. There are only a few ITR cars that fit the allowance rule for running in STL in IT-spec. Has to be below 2L. Since the rotards are considered 2.6, they aren't eligible for that specific allowance. However, they did make a specific allowance for the RX-8 (or any Renisis-equipped Mazda product) at 3000lbs. Why, I have no idea, but that is 'better' than not being able to run in STL at all if that is where you want to double dip. Most IT cars go to STU and some even to STO.

[JS154]

Honest question which may be answered by Andy's answer...

Why can the S2000 run at ITR spec but the RX8 has to add weight? Why can't I run my RX8 as an ITR car?

Stephen

PS: Jake you are spot on for IT gains and stock they have 170-180. Biggest issue with any Rotary Dyno number is that none are really set up for them specifically so the user error is pretty high.

Are you asking about running the S2K or RX8 in ITR trim in STL or STU?

[Knestis]

Greg (et al.) - Can I get some guidance re: what specs you need in order to consider a specific spec-line request? What kind of documentation counts as sufficient evidence on which to base a decision? I'm looking at the Euro-spec VW ABF 2.0 16v, as found in the continental GTI of the same generation as Pablo.

Thanks in advance,

Kirk

[Greg Amy]

Can I get some guidance re: what specs you need in order to consider a specific spec-line request?

Not yet. We need to get the general idea approved before we can get to the specifics.

My sense is that we're going to need power output specs to ensure it does not exceed expected guidelines for the class (whatever those are), and then relevant scrutineering specs so it can be tech'd (e.g., intake manifold design/part numbers, throttle body size/part numbers, valve sizes, some idea of stock port configuration, etc). But that's just a WAG on my part right now.

Let's get buy-in on the concept then we can work on the details.

GA

[Knestis]

Not yet. We need to get the general idea approved before we can get to the specifics.

My sense is that we're going to need power output specs to ensure it does not exceed expected guidelines for the class (whatever those are), and then relevant scrutineering specs so it can be tech'd (e.g., intake manifold design/part numbers, throttle body size/part numbers, valve sizes, some idea of stock port configuration, etc). But that's just a WAG on my part right now.

Let's get buy-in on the concept then we can work on the details.

GA

Excellent - thanks!

K

[StephenB]

Are you asking about running the S2K or RX8 in ITR trim in STL or STU?

RX8 in ITR trim.


edited because...

[Greg Amy]

edited because...

"racecar"...?

[Rabbit07]

RX8 in ITR trim.


edited because...

You are perfectly welcome to install a 13B in the RX8 and run it at the 13b weight. There are options. Everyone would like there car to fit inside the Super touring Box neatly and cleanly. It just doesn't work that way.

I for one know of an RX8 that will be running ST in GLDiv. Lets see how it does and if it really is that far off, then we can re look at it. I suspect it will do just fine.

[StephenB]

Chris,

I was confused because I thought other ITR cars could run in STL with ITR prep levels. Some others on this site posted they were going to run an S2000 under ITR prep rules. That is what didn't make sense to me.

Sorry, Back on topic...

Stephen

[Eagle7]

I for one know of an RX8 that will be running ST in GLDiv. Lets see how it does and if it really is that far off, then we can re look at it. I suspect it will do just fine.

If that Huffmaster kid is driving, it won't matter how far off the car is.