ST Impact on IT...?

[lateapex911]

OK, Chris. Lets look at the math:
ITS Miata will make 163 at the wheels. The math puts that at 2430. Add the RWD factor and you're at 2490. Well, really you'll be at 2550 once the new RWD factor goes into effect. (assuming it's 5%, not the 7% I read about here. I like 5, easy math. , plus it's a pretty reasonable value all things considered. I think 2.55 is low.)
So, the Presumed and obvious main frontrunner is the Teg at 2430.
2430/190 = 12.78
2550/163 = 15.64

So, I'm not sure I'd spend money doing that, myself.
Now, Jim Drago thinks he can get a 99 motor to 190.* If so, that means
2550/190 = 13.42
THAT is worth a shot, and would be a good race.
Dunno about his number though, but I give him the nod when it comes to Miata motors.
*From a RR/AX thread.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Now, Jim Drago thinks he can get a 99 motor to 190.*

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA! Drago - if you are reading this, you are nuts.

[lateapex911]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA! Drago - if you are reading this, you are nuts.

And I quote:

That is the 64,000 question! ( That may be literal )

I have an 02 Miata that will likely become my STL Miata with a 99 engine... Everytime I turn around.. it is more $$ and then more $$$ and oh yeah, then more $$$.

I think 185-190 Dynojet SAE is possible(probable) in STL MIATA, whether that will be enough is the question? Especially at +150 lbs over the Integras, we need to get the CRB to fix this ASAP! ( full disclosure: I havent started my car and building it knowing full well the rules and possible issues before hand)

[JeffYoung]

Is he talking wheels or crank though? I guess by referring to Dynojet it must be wheels.

And I quote:

[lateapex911]

Gotta be wheel! Unless he's backing out the power to crank but that would be illogical.

If it were crank, that would back down to about 158-160 wheel, and that ITS motor territory. Given the allowances I'd think more is reasonable to expect.

[Rabbit07]

OK, Chris. Lets look at the math:
ITS Miata will make 163 at the wheels. The math puts that at 2430. Add the RWD factor and you're at 2490. Well, really you'll be at 2550 once the new RWD factor goes into effect. (assuming it's 5%, not the 7% I read about here. I like 5, easy math. , plus it's a pretty reasonable value all things considered. I think 2.55 is low.)
So, the Presumed and obvious main frontrunner is the Teg at 2430.
2430/190 = 12.78
2550/163 = 15.64

So, I'm not sure I'd spend money doing that, myself.
Now, Jim Drago thinks he can get a 99 motor to 190.* If so, that means
2550/190 = 13.42
THAT is worth a shot, and would be a good race.
Dunno about his number though, but I give him the nod when it comes to Miata motors.
*From a RR/AX thread.

Wrong, I get to run it at the ITS weight. 2375?

[bamfp]

OK, Chris. Lets look at the math:
ITS Miata will make 163 at the wheels. The math puts that at 2430. Add the RWD factor and you're at 2490. Well, really you'll be at 2550 once the new RWD factor goes into effect. (assuming it's 5%, not the 7% I read about here. I like 5, easy math. , plus it's a pretty reasonable value all things considered. I think 2.55 is low.)
So, the Presumed and obvious main frontrunner is the Teg at 2430.
2430/190 = 12.78
2550/163 = 15.64

So, I'm not sure I'd spend money doing that, myself.
Now, Jim Drago thinks he can get a 99 motor to 190.* If so, that means
2550/190 = 13.42
THAT is worth a shot, and would be a good race.
Dunno about his number though, but I give him the nod when it comes to Miata motors.
*From a RR/AX thread.

So run the math with a Civic with a 1.6L making 175 and 1.7L making 180 and what do you get?

[Andy Bettencourt]

So run the math with a Civic with a 1.6L making 175 and 1.7L making 180 and what do you get?

A CRX with 175whp at 2160 would be THE combo if it could happen. Even if you pie-in-the-skied 190whp from a Mee-otter, at the current 2490lb weight (soon to be at least 2550? Maybe more) - its a non-starter. 1.6 is the hands down choice.

STL CRX Si: 2160/175=12.34
STL Integra 1.8: 2430/195*=12.46
STL HondAcura 1.7: 2295/180=12.75
STL Miata 1.8: 2490/190**=13.11
STL Miata 1.8: 2550/190**=13.4
ITR S2000: 3005/220***=13.65
Grand Am MX-5: 2835****/205=13.83


* Assuming 10whp above IT build
** Assuming 30whp above IT build (really?)
***Assuming 10whp above our current car
****Assuming eventual change to 5% adder for RWD

Even if you took the best P/W in ITR and ran it: E36 325 (2785/220whp=12.65) it still won't touch the top tier choices (note - it's not eligible, just an illustration). IT cars running in STL won't have a chance when the class gets some real cars...and that is TOTALLY fine. It's just a place to run as a double-dipper. You wouldn't want any IT cars with better numbers.

[jdrago1]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA! Drago - if you are reading this, you are nuts.

I knew I was nuts before reading this.. 183 , but it sure does sound good

Hopefully 190 by 2013 Runoffs
Jim

[Greg Amy]

I knew I was nuts before reading this.. 183 , but it sure does sound good

I predicted 185 for the Mee-otters in STL trim, looks like I missed that, too...

GA, who's still LOL'ing at all the wankers whining about how STL was going to be a "FWD Honduh class..."

Someone needs to wake up and realize the ones who are writing the rules this year for STL are setting it up for them to win a National Championship because the cars they drive have all the rules in their favor.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I predicted 185 for the Mee-otters in STL trim, looks like I missed that, too...

GA, who's still LOL'ing at all the wankers whining about how STL was going to be a "FWD Honduh class..."

Guess you missed that power to weight estimate on the 1.6? All the Honduh's are still a pound per HP better. We'll wait until we see a fast one. Imagine Joe with 50 more WHP. Sweet Geezus.

[Rabbit07]

Lol.......

Bring it

[Andy Bettencourt]

It will certainly be an awesome matchup to see if we have a 190whp Otter out there with a 175whp 2200lb FWD/DWB car.

Still wondering how that RX8 was so quick at 3000lbs and what - 215whp?

It's a cool class for sure. Needs moar K20 and NSX. I wish there was no limit on chassis age.

[Rabbit07]

Still wondering how that RX8 was so quick at 3000lbs and what - 215whp?

You work on it like we did for hours..days...weeks

[Andy Bettencourt]

You work on it like we did for hours..days...weeks

It should be way down on p/w to anything well built.

[Greg Amy]

Guess you missed that power to weight estimate on the 1.6?

Guess you missed we're talking about the 1.8...? I sincerely doubt Drago dropped a 1.6L into his NB.

GA

Edit: And, if someone considers them self a true Miata wheel-man (or -woman) the STL-prepped 1.6L Miata will weigh 350 pounds less than Drago's car. Cam and compression that thing up with good top-end valvetrain components and there is your "Sweet Geezus".

We are all in agreement that the Honda's are well positioned to dominate the class and the more I hear the more I 100% believe it was originally conceived as a Honda/FWD swap class. Barriers are being put up and clarifications are being made to protect that original philosophy. No problems, just crazy limiting as we have beaten to death before. 'They' want a FWD Honda swap class, so be it. It won't survive. ESPECIALLY when someone like Drago builds a Miata that, on paper, isn't a match for a well built and well driven HondAcura and his prep and driving make everyone look foolish. It will create ridiculous FUD, weight and limits will ensue and the class will die...

Just my prediction.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Guess you missed we're talking about the 1.8...? I sincerely doubt Drago dropped a 1.6L into his NB.

GA

Edit: And, if someone considers them self a true Miata wheel-man (or -woman) the STL-prepped 1.6L Miata will weigh 350 pounds less than Drago's car. Cam and compression that thing up with good top-end valvetrain components and there is your "Sweet Geezus".

Talking about the 1.6 Honda vs the perceived equality. Glad you quoted me above, because so far, it's almost true. Time will tell what the STAC does with the RWD weights given the sample and quality of the fields.

Edit: On the 1.6 Mazda, I wonder what power the FP cars are putting down and how close those cam specs are to ST rules. Could be a fun option.

[bamfp]

Talking about the 1.6 Honda vs the perceived equality. Glad you quoted me above, because so far, it's almost true. Time will tell what the STAC does with the RWD weights given the sample and quality of the fields.

Edit: On the 1.6 Mazda, I wonder what power the FP cars are putting down and how close those cam specs are to ST rules. Could be a fun option.

When I worked at Sunbelt we built a basic FP Miata engine. It made 175 crank hp. That was with I think .390" cams and 10 to 1. I think the good ones now are making 185+. So it will make at the crank what the B16 Honda engine should almost make at the wheels.

[Andy Bettencourt]

When I worked at Sunbelt we built a basic FP Miata engine. It made 175 crank hp. That was with I think .390" cams and 10 to 1. I think the good ones now are making 185+. So it will make at the crank what the B16 Honda engine should almost make at the wheels.

Bummer - good info though. I have to think that the solid lifters on the 99+ are a huge factor in making power.

[mossaidis]

I am no B16 expert... yet, I think making 180whp with a B16 on 93 octane is a high mark, certainly not impossible. 185 whp might be a stretch.