To build or not to build

[mossaidis]

Am I a late arrival for this thread? Jero, I will share everything I know about my build and, what in opinion, works or does not work. Much of my knowledge, which is really translated from others, will transfer to your car if you decide to build as IT car where as an ITA or ITB car. Let me get online tonight from home and I will pour my guts out on this thread... (par for the course)

[Brettt]

I just thought I would chime in on the "build it in spite all conventional wisdom" side of things. I am well aware that it isn't for everyone to build your first car, and there is A LOT to be said about buying one already built. While you will learn a lot from building a car(what we did), I believe there is also a lot to be said about buying a turn-key car and looking at how it's put together.

For instance, while the labor of doing it yourself may be free, I'm still finding myself spending many nights trolling forums to find tips and tricks that fast people have done on my car. While all of this is well and good, personally I'm a very visual, hands-on kind of learner and nothing compares to seeing how it works in person. I can look at numbers and spring rates and suspension diagrams all day and night, but it seems that only after we've bought and installed the stuff on the car does it really "click" for me. It seems I need to feel the difference from the driver's seat before I really understand it.

Just something to keep in mind. I'm 100% confident that I'm a better driver because we've built our own motor after the first one grenaded in the Driver's School, made improvements to the cage design(additional bracing and such), and changed spring rates and adjusted the suspension settings in the pursuit of those dang Miatas. It is true that all of these things take time, but for me at least, it is WELL worth it in the end to have an far greater understanding of the car dynamics and the effect that the different changes have made. As far as I'm concerned, knowledge = speed.

Also, we won our first 2 races this past year in our second season of running in the Midwest Division after muchissimo help diagnosing things and getting a decent setup from people like Greg Amy and Matt Kessler that I found on this very forum.

[Darryl Pritchett]

Check out my post on here under other race cars for sale. I have a 2001 Honda Prelude SH that has been running SSB. Currently has a blown engine but would make a very competitive ITS car and has the capability of putting out over 200WHP. Tons of spares to go with it all for $2,500. Three tranny's, two ATTS units, 3 sets of wheels and tires one being a set of Hoosier Wets with one session. Hood, bumper and more. This would keep you in a Honda and could get you on the track for a lot less then building.

[HQHITA]

Wow. That's ridiculous. I am not far from you. Is the car in Daytona or Deltona?

FML, make it more confusing... I don't know a thing about preludes though...

[Darryl Pritchett]

Car is in Daytona, come look at it.

[HQHITA]

That seems like a ridiculous deal, but wouldn't it cost a bunch of money (maybe not as much) to convert that car to ITS specs?

I am thinking you need suspension, exhaust, header, intake, ECU, motor, blueprint motor, clutch, etc...?

Whereas the my hatch plus a cage should be less than $2500 and the rest of the stuff I still need. Difference is spares. But EG parts are cheaper and it should be cheaper to run.

Am I off base here? The thought of owning a car for $2500 is unbelievably appealing, but then I start adding all the other stuff and i'm kind of back at square one no?

[Chip42]

Am I off base here? The thought of owning a car for $2500 is unbelievably appealing, but then I start adding all the other stuff and i'm kind of back at square one no?

you DO get spare wheels, tires, trans, a cage already in the car (assumes the cage is good, as making any modifications is easier than building from scratch), kill switch, fire bottle, likely some sorting already done that transfers to IT. and parts of the motor (I don't know how bad it is). that $2500 might not be the best deal in the history of racing, but it is a pretty good deal.

also, whatever you wind up doing, you don't "need" to build a motor to the nines. honda did a good job building them in the first place, so pull a good junkyard mill and go driving. build the good motor later.

[Darryl Pritchett]

Car has brand new clutch with only one weekend of racing. Yes it has a very nicely done cage already in the car, has carbotech brakes. It already has a different computer in it so it can be tuned. These H22A V-Tech motors with very little extra work can produce 200+Whp. Go racing with a salvage yard motor for a year and learn to drive the car to its capability then start thinking about a fully built IT motor.

[Bill Miller]

That seems like a ridiculous deal, but wouldn't it cost a bunch of money (maybe not as much) to convert that car to ITS specs?

I am thinking you need suspension, exhaust, header, intake, ECU, motor, blueprint motor, clutch, etc...?

Whereas the my hatch plus a cage should be less than $2500 and the rest of the stuff I still need. Difference is spares. But EG parts are cheaper and it should be cheaper to run.

Am I off base here? The thought of owning a car for $2500 is unbelievably appealing, but then I start adding all the other stuff and i'm kind of back at square one no?

The spare wheels/tires would cost at least half of what he's asking for the car. And I'm pretty sure you could just slap some ITS stickers (and weight stickers) on the car, as is, and run itl

You're a Honda guy and the car is close to you. For $2500, you're getting a big jump on the build. I haven't priced them, but I would not be surprised if a cage for you car is $2000 - $2500.

You can probably have this car, w/ a stock motor, on the track for <$5000. Hard to do that in ITS. And it's a Honda, so it should be dead reliable.

Faster cars are usually more expensive to run, but I don't think it would be that big a difference between an ITS Honda and an ITA Honda. The spares that come w/ this car will also go a long way to mitigate that.

The nice thing, is that you could be on the track and work on developing the car as you learn it.

[callard]

I've built all 8 of my racecars over the years and a couple for friends. It's fun but expensive. And takes mucho time. What he's asking for the SSB car is less than most of my spares packages. BUY IT!!!!! Stick a JY motor in it and go racing.
You and your shop buds can build your dream car at a more leisurly pace as your wallet allows. Meanwhile your driver skill set will outpace your fabricator skill set.
BUY IT!!!!!

[HQHITA]

Thanks for the advice guys. I am going to go look at the car early next week.

Thanks again

[lateapex911]

(In hindsight, I'd have bought a different car if I'd known what the future was going to bring. Either Child's "more ITA Neons and parts than you can fit in your trailer" deal, or maybe the ITB Golf that's for sale now. But those deals weren't out there when I was looking. There was an ITA civic sedan that looked like a good build though, and I should've probably lowballed him.)

Mark, not picking on you here, but, just running with your point.
For those that don't know, Mark likes to ask questions and get advice. Then he ignores it.
So, when he went race car shopping, I seem to recall he got advice to buy a good car with a pedigree, and even if it cost double what the cheap cars were selling for, it would still be a deal.

But of course the lure of the deal is strong.
And if I'm not mistaken, the car still hasn't driven in a race yet.
So, while the great cars here might sound expensive, when you do the REAL math, they're freakin deals.

[lateapex911]

Just saw the prelude post. Paging kevin Ruck. he can tell you about the potential. I recall he had a Prelude that set a lap record at Mid Ohio, in ITS I think. Thats pretty impressive, as Kip VS has run there. I might be confused, but, look into the specific with Kev (PM him from here) and you might find the Lude has top drawer potential.
ITS in FL is very well represented...actually it's hopping all across the SE.
A car with a logbook, a good cage a good chassis and spare wheels with for 2500 should be seriously considered.
It will get you ON the track AND you can build it up as you see fit. best of both worlds???

[HQHITA]

Just saw the prelude post. Paging kevin Ruck. he can tell you about the potential. I recall he had a Prelude that set a lap record at Mid Ohio, in ITS I think. Thats pretty impressive, as Kip VS has run there. I might be confused, but, look into the specific with Kev (PM him from here) and you might find the Lude has top drawer potential.
ITS in FL is very well represented...actually it's hopping all across the SE.
A car with a logbook, a good cage a good chassis and spare wheels with for 2500 should be seriously considered.
It will get you ON the track AND you can build it up as you see fit. best of both worlds???

That's exactly what I am thinking...

[almracing]

HQHITA - J, sent you a PM.

[JLawton]

Trust me, even if you buy a built car, a race car is one continueous project. There's always stuff to work on. So don't feel just because you bought a "built" car that you'll be sitting around drinking beer with nothing to do.

Even when my car was running well, we would spend a couple of hours between race weekends doing a nut and bolt, checking set-up, looking for broken stuff and tweaking it to make it go faster. in my opinion, one of the biggest pieces of the puzzle to being fast is prep. Good prep takes time........


Edit: I built my first car..... biggest mistake I ever made. It probably set my driving developement back 3-4 years because I spent all the time working/building the car instead of working on my driving skills. The bottom line is do you want to be out on the track racing THIS season or spending a couple of years in the garage?

[pavis]

HQHITA:

PM sent re: ITA crx for sale

Pete

[Chip42]

FWIW I LOVE building racecars, and I encourage anyone who has the gumption for it to give it a shot. but as has been said above, even a built car is an ongoing project and after a few years you will have rebuilt it to be pretty much what you want it to be, but meanwhile you will be driving the thing and learning. Also, you might pick up some tricks done by the builder/previous owner(s) that you might not have thought of yourself.

Steve's MR2 was a logbooked car, but the only things left from the purchase are the shell with interior, header, differential, sway bars, strut tower bar, and main + fan switches. everything else, from the cage to the paint, was redone by Steve and the rest of TrackSpeed. so I guess that's a worst case scenario.

I built mine from a street car. it's 100% my designs, and I have WAY more in it than I could ever sell it for - just counting hard costs. it took years to get to where it is, meanwhile I was NOT driving. love the car, thoguh.

we have 2 other MR2s in the fleet that were purchased as running cars. both needed engines rebuilt within the first week of track use, and a few other odds and ends, but were generally ready to use AND came with tons of spares (full spare street car, each). huge savings, but there's a lot about both cars that isn't up to the same build standard as Steve and My cars... yet.

[HQHITA]

So it seems building a car is out the window.

Now the question becomes buy a very cheap SSB Prelude and convert to ITS or buy a ITA CRX for several thousand dollars more.

I've had a CRX before, never driven a Prelude. I like the promise of the speeds of ITS or ITR more (my street car runs 2:23's at Sebring).

There's probaly a $3500 difference in price. For Prelude, Motor is $1000, suspension $1500ish? Header is $1000ish? So real cost is very similar at the end of the day.

Parts for CRX are more common. Recipe for success in CRX more proven.

Opinions?

[gran racing]

Depending on the track, ITS and ITA speeds might not be all that different.