Minimum weight display

[jjjanos]

I'll chalk you up in the column of "I've never volunteered to work the scales at tech while 6+ classes of 3+ cars each are all standing out in the hot sun/cold rain waiting to be paraded across the scales while some guy flips through the outdated paper copy of the GCR trying to find MY car, in MY class, and trying to get from me the chassis, car, engine installed, number of gears, suspension mods, blah, blah, blah."

Lots of phale there.
Paper copy -- though even in that case finding a car is a 3-second ordeal. More important... why isn't registration automatically generating a sheet for tech with the legal weight for that configuration of this car in the class? I know that when I register I have to give the legal weight of my car.

As for # fo gears, engine installed, suspension mods, blah.... where's the check to keep me from putting a low-ball weight on the car? Neither tech nor my competition is going to know # of gears, suspension mods, blah.

This sounds like SCCA grabbing a machete when a paring knife was needed -- the different mods, prep-levels ad nauseum are a GT/Prod/ST problem.

Try it sometime, you'll like it.

Thanks, I did my duty flagging.

Conversely, we can do it just like we do at the Runoffs: instead of doing all the work in arrears, we can stand in the pre-tech line with our helmets waiting for our tech approval sticker, while debating with the tech inspector what page in the GCR you are to find OUR car, in OUR class, and trying to get from me the chassis, car, engine installed, number of gears, suspension mods, blah, blah, blah. Or, even better, we can wait in line behind the guy in front of us that's doing the same thing for HIS car.

Or the numbers can be entered during the registration process which then generates the list for tech.... Still doesn't do squat about mods though.

[Greg Amy]

Yes, I know trying to logically argue with him is silly, I just want everyone else to understand how silly he really looks.

...why isn't registration automatically generating a sheet for tech with the legal weight for that configuration of this car in the class?

To what end? So Tech has to flip through 250 8-1/2x11 sheets of paper to find the right car/class for your car, when the number can simply be written on a piece of duct tape on the side of the car?

where's the check to keep me from putting a low-ball weight on the car?

Using your same "logic phale", the same check to keep you from low-balling the weight on the registration sheet you want them to create: Jeff Lawton and $25.

Thanks, I did my duty flagging.

Good, then you possibly fully understand why we make drivers put numbers and class on the side of the car instead of having flaggers call in "red Miata with the white top and blue paint marks on the LF bumper" and making them look up ID info and report that from either an outdated copy of the GCR or by flipping through 250 8-1/2x11 sheets of paper that registration generated.

Then again, maybe not.

Point is moot: do it if you want to compete; you have no say in the matter. I personally don't care if it annoys you. In fact, I kinda smile when I think it may...

GA

[jjjanos]

Now if you were actually working tech, trying to get racers in and out quickly, for their benefit*, maybe you could see the reason.

Impound lasts 30 minutes n'cest pas? Ain't nobody leaving impound for 30 minutes that goes to impound, even those that go there by mistake.

And let's not forget... why isn't registration automatically generating a sheet for tech with the legal weight for that configuration of this car in the class?

It would have made my life easier as a flagger if they didn't have that stupid white flag rule for the first session of the day (that serves no purpose), but it won't be changed. It would make my life easier as both a flagger and a driver if the stations were all given green flags to indicate where the yellow flag condition ends, but that rule goes no where.

And before you whine that they shouldn't weigh 40 cars, bla bla bla, I'll go on record as saying Id LOVE it if tech was more assertive in weighing everybody, and making everyone open hoods, etc.

I have no problem with a rule requiring impounding every car after every session... though if it's to tasking to spend a few seconds to look up the weight of a car, I would suggest that such a rule also would be too tasking.

[jjjanos]

To what end? So Tech has to flip through 250 8-1/2x11 sheets of paper to find the right car/class for your car, when the number can simply be written on a piece of duct tape on the side of the car?

Run group 1
# Tech sticker Weight
01 2345
1 X 1974
5 X 8765
.
.
.
99 X 5465

<Page Break>

Run group 2
# Tech sticker Weight
0 X 2345
00 X 12125
01 X 2874
1 X 1765
02 3765
.
.
.
99 X 1465

<Page Break>

Using your same "logic phale", the same check to keep you from low-balling the weight on the registration sheet you want them to create: Jeff Lawton and $25.

OK, so we've established that without a protest, tech has no way of knowing whether the weight I've declared is legal if that weight depends upon unseen modifications.

Still sounds like this isn't an IT problem and lies with other classifications that have multiple weights for the same year/car based on prep level.

Point is moot: do it if you want to compete; you have no say in the matter. I personally don't care if it annoys you. In fact, I kinda smile when I think it may...

And there lies the reason why other sanctioning bodies have growing memberships and SCCA is stagnating or dieing.

[Greg Amy]

why isn't registration automatically generating a sheet for tech with the legal weight for that configuration of this car in the class?

Because it's far easier and more efficient to have drivers put a piece of duct tape on the side of their car and use a Sharpie to write their weight on it. And it only has to be done one time instead of every event. And it saves trees, under which American children can play. If you don't like America and/or you hate children, then I guess that's between you and your Maker, but personally I like both America and children;after all, children are our future and America is where I live ("f**K yeah!")

So I, as an American patriot who loves children, am pretty ok with the "duct tape and Sharpie" option.

And there lies the reason why other sanctioning bodies have growing memberships and SCCA is stagnating or dieing.

I suggest if someone is avoiding SCCA because they can't afford 12 inches of duct tape and a Sharpie, they probably weren't a strong member/competitor to begin with... - GA

[jjjanos]

So I, as an American patriot who loves children, am pretty ok with the "duct tape and Sharpie" option.

I love America. Growing trees keeps agriculture majors employed. Cutting down trees keeps lumber jacks employed. Processing wood into paper keeps papersmiths in employed. Shipping that paper from factory to warehouse keeps teamsters employed. Moving the pallets from semitruck to warehouse and to a stake truck keeps high school-educated people employed. Stocking the shelves of the office store and running the register keeps more of the same employed. Keeping those people employed allows them to pay for their kids college. These are all shovel ready jobs.

A sharpie on the side of the car employs far fewer people.

I suggest if someone is avoiding SCCA because they can't afford 12 inches of duct tape and a Sharpie, they probably weren't a strong member/competitor to begin with... - GA

Point............................................. .........................................> You.

The failure to consider the impact on the paying custome is the problem. Yep, this is a minor thing... a death by a thousand cuts.

[Greg Amy]

A sharpie on the side of the car employs far fewer people.

I think you greatly misunderestimate the contribution that duct tape and Sharpies make to America...nay, the world itself! Why, without duct tape, we'd not even gotten to the moon! And there are many, many, many American families that owe their safety and qualify of life to the taxes provided by the hard-working souls of the American factories producing truly, made-in-the-USA yet globally-sold American icon products like the Sharpie...

Hey, you know, just sayin', man.

GA

[dickita15]

One factor that IT guys miss is that in many classes there are various weights that a car can run depending on tranny, heads or wheel size. By having the weight on the car your competitor who is more likely to know your configuration than a tech inspector can see if you are declaring a legitimate weight. The first two times this was proposed the requirements were a bit overbearing but the way this rule is written it is pretty darn simple to comply with.

[jjjanos]

I think you greatly misunderestimate the contribution that duct tape and Sharpies make to America...nay, the world itself!GA

I was not making a comment on the contributions of either Sharpies or duct tape to America. Without the former, finding a passed-out roommate would be wasted. Without the latter, child care would be far more tasking. It simply was a comment on the total employment generated through the two methods. The Sharpie/duct tape approach is a single shot as neither the the tape or the Sharpie-written weight will ever fade. The paper approach generates green (what could be more green than working with trees?) jobs for years.

[Z3_GoCar]

One factor that IT guys miss is that in many classes there are various weights that a car can run depending on tranny, heads or wheel size. By having the weight on the car your competitor who is more likely to know your configuration than a tech inspector can see if you are declaring a legitimate weight. The first two times this was proposed the requirements were a bit overbearing but the way this rule is written it is pretty darn simple to comply with.

Greg, I'd recommend you read the rule and tell me where it says that I have put this seemingly random number on both sides of my car, and why something that's "visable" throught both the windshield and the passenger window won't do?

[lateapex911]

Impound lasts 30 minutes n'cest pas? Ain't nobody leaving impound for 30 minutes that goes to impound, even those that go there by mistake.

Remember the part of my post about paddock sizes?? Stretch the brain a bit. Cars go from in front of the scales, all lined up 40 deep, to a parc ferme area. Getting them THROUGH the scales faster, means the tiny clustered paddock area in front of the scales has cars disappear faster, resulting in less traffic jams and congestion.
I can see this rule having an IMMEDIATE affect on certain tracks.

I don't see why all the whining. The sky may be falling in other areas of the club, but it's fine here. Really.

[Dave Gomberg]

Greg, I'd recommend you read the rule and tell me where it says that I have put this seemingly random number on both sides of my car, and why something that's "visable" throught both the windshield and the passenger window won't do?

You are correct n both counts - maybe. If you always run at a single track or if all the tracks you run at have the inspectors on the same side of the car, then you can satisfy the rule with the weight displayed on only one side. As for putting the weight on a window, that will work - in many cases - as long as it is easy for the tech person to locate and read. But, you would be derailing the train if they have to hunt and use binoculars.

Dave

[jjjanos]

Remember the part of my post about paddock sizes?? Stretch the brain a bit. Cars go from in front of the scales, all lined up 40 deep, to a parc ferme area. Getting them THROUGH the scales faster, means the tiny clustered paddock area in front of the scales has cars disappear faster, resulting in less traffic jams and congestion.
I can see this rule having an IMMEDIATE affect on certain tracks.

Like I said... the time to find the weight of an IT car via the paper method is a few seconds. 40 cars x 8 seconds = 6:20 to weigh all the cars, except the lead car is coming off the track 90 seconds before the last car, so the delay is less than 5 minutes. Plus, all you need is the initial weigh and then you have 30 minutes to check the correct weight.

Cars are in parc ferme, correct? I run the car over the scale as I enter impound or 22 minutes later, both are equally valid weights since the car is in parc ferme. Worried about the driver gaining weight in the interval? Already exists -- cuz I'm going to demand another weighing and I bet so will the Stewards... especially if neither I or my crew got to see the weight on the scale (E.g. Summit Point which hides it and anywhere that doesn't have the electronic display for the driver to see).

I don't see why all the whining. The sky may be falling in other areas of the club, but it's fine here. Really.

Like I said.... death by small cuts. It's just one more PITA.

[Andy Bettencourt]

It's just one more PITA.

If you consider putting 2 new decals on your car for the sole purpose of making a group of volunteers job easier a PITA, then you don't care much, if at all. Success in this sport is largely the 'details'. This is a one-time, easy-to-do, 'detail' that helps us all.

[JohnW8]

On the topic of post event weighing... since we combine the car and driver weight why do we have to be weighed separately?

And does anyone know where I can get some FIA/SFi 38.1 spec duct tape? I can only afford 12" so can I split the piece into 2 6" pieces?

[JoshS]

On the topic of post event weighing... since we combine the car and driver weight why do we have to be weighed separately?

You don't have to be weighed separately. If your region weighs you separately, then you should ask your region why.

[JeffYoung]

We do it (weigh separately) at two tracks and the reason is pretty clear -- the scales at those tracks only weigh one axle at a time, so the procedure is front axle, rear axle, driver.

[Chip42]

The GCR spells it out like Jeff said - 5.9.4.B "If all 4 wheels cannot be weighed simultaneously, the driver must be weighed separately from the car."

I think this comes from formula and other light weight cars where the driver can "add" weight to the front by leaning forward and then to the rear by sitting back into the seat and pulling in his legs. with all of the controlled chaos that is post race impound, this would be hard to notice in many cars.

note that this is only for official weights, the scales are open throughout the weekend for drivers to come across and get their corner weights.

as for the weight stickers - I love the idea. perfect? no. helpful? yes. and it promotes honesty in the classes where there are configuration weights (especially ST, Prod, GT). I actually see no negative to this.

[StephenB]

Greg, Thanks for posting up some pics of some ideas. I found it helpfull and I am sure the OP did since that is what he was looking for.

As for everyone complaining... really? WOW. get out and SKI!!!
If you really can't afford them send me a PM and I will send some to you. I even have a few colors of vinyl you can pick from!

PS: I DO THINK this is a GREAT idea for those classes with multiple weights. As stated above it allows all competitors to see what the driver THINKS he or she should be at and allows the competitors to agree or disagree long before the car even hits the scales in impound. Very smart move as we add these more complicated classes. AS another poster stated for IT it isn't really a big deal since we can look it up pretty quickly in the GCR, however I am all for consistancy within SCCA when it comes to a simple rule like this.

[CRallo]

andy, you are probably one of the few people who knows the weights of all the cars in ita. The only weight i know in ita is the miata. I would have no clue what the tegs are, what the crxs are. I bet besides you, without looking it up, there is no one who knows the weight of the saturn sc. How about the weight of the saturn sl?

Again, are you gonna be chacking everyone's weights at the end of a race?

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