Race Technology dl1 & dash2

[StephenB]

Hello all,

Thinking about purchasing data aquisition and a Dash for the RX8. (Time frame would be April) I am starting to do a little research on different set-ups and I think I want to go with the Race Technology dl1 & dash2 package. I know this has been talked about before but I couldn't find any threads. I am pretty sure this is plug and play with an adaptor from them. Any comments or suggestions? I know flat-out sells them and they race at almost all the races I race at, plus they are always a good group and would probably answer a question if I had one. But if anyone knows of a used set-up somewhere that is selling for less that would be a bonus

Thanks for any/all comments
Stephen

[gran racing]

A lot of people in the N.E. use this. Greg Amy has his fair share of coaching with these systems too. I have both and probably wouldn't purchase the DASH2 again if had to do it all over.

[StephenB]

Dave, Why not the dash 2? What would you do instead?

[gran racing]

OEM tack and speedo. Then separate oil and temp gauges.

Maybe something like the below? I just feel that I'm not getting much, if any more value out of having the other type digital display. Yes, it does lap times (I actually turn that off and feel it has in ways imposed limits on me in the past) and some other features.

I personally don't need a shift light, but maybe that's just my own opinion. A lap counter would be the only item I'd like on my dash, but that's not even on the darn DASH2 unless it was just recently added. Pretty annoying it's not.

Now granted, it does look kinda cool but can think of better ways of spending the money. I imagine others will chime in and say it's the best thing ever.

[Andy Bettencourt]

So I am a convert. I love regular gauges but there is a ton of value having all of your critical and 'other' data on one display. We have it set up so that you can toggle to oil and water temps if you want to check them but set up warnings when they get to a level you choose.

Not having to look all over your dash or center stack for stuff is nice.

I like seeing lap times as it tells me when I can come in during qualifying to not risk equipment or use up consumables. It also tells me about my 'pace'. Crank it up? Dial it back? We also set up the integrated video to mirror the Dash display.

[StephenB]

So I am a convert. I love regular gauges but there is a ton of value having all of your critical and 'other' data on one display. We have it set up so that you can toggle to oil and water temps if you want to check them but set up warnings when they get to a level you choose.

Not having to look all over your dash or center stack for stuff is nice.

I like seeing lap times as it tells me when I can come in during qualifying to not risk equipment or use up consumables. It also tells me about my 'pace'. Crank it up? Dial it back? We also set up the integrated video to mirror the Dash display.

Those are all the things that I WANT... Basically looking at the center dash is easy when lapping but when in the heat of battle it gets real difficult real fast to keep checking. Plus this rotary thing sounds nothing like a 5cyl. I looked down at the tach the first time I drove it up the back straight at the glen and was well over 10K RPM and had no clue!!!

My current setup has oil temp, water temp, oil pressure, fuel pressure, trans temp, and diff temp. Stock guages are basically dummy lights for everything but fuel level. I really would like the warning lights when it is something I need to look at, but be able to set them to come on well before the stock dummy light since that is usually to late to help. I would also love to have lap times. Does the Dash2 have a ghost car feature?

Stephen

[MMiskoe]

Having driven a car that had both guages and a warning light, the light was the ticket. We lost the water pump belt once and in looking at the data after the fact I probably would not have seen the temp guage for at least another 30 seconds if not twice that long if the warning light didn't make me look. However the data showed that the voltage had dropped (when the belt came off) and the temps started to climb since I was still on it. Once I backed off temps stablized for the remainder of the lap. We put the belt back on and all was good, no damage done. Moral of the story is that a good warning light is better than a guage and you can do that w/o a fancy data system. We just plumbed a thermal switch into the upper radiator hose, wired back to a $3 light from Radio shack.


I have a Dash 3 in my car and like it alot, but all I use it for is lap times. However, the DL-1 will not support the Dash-3 and an OBDII pickup. I belieive the Dash2 can be used w/ the OBDII pick up. That is worth somthing since it saves effort on wiring for engine data. The rest of the data is great to look at after the fact, especially if you have more than on driver in the car.

[gran racing]

Stephen, your guages are also mounted in a location where it would take effort to look at. The above photo I believe has the dummy lights.

The DASH2 doesn't have ghost times, but it does include predictive lap times based on previous best segments and what you've done thus far in a lap.

I guess there are pros and cons of lap times. In the past I had lap times displayed, but found after I turned it off I started turning better times. Honestly could be that Andy has better focus on that than me. I found myself hitting a mark (say a 1:03.7 at LRP) then saying that's good enough when in reality a 1:03.3 or better was more than possible.

I do think lap times are great for longer stints or if you find yourself out by yourself. There have been couple times at the Glen where no one was around me and I knew my lap times were suffering. With it being displayed, it gave me something to go after.

It sounds like Stephen already got the go ahead on this toy so the decision was already made before starting the thread.

[Andy Bettencourt]

So Dave, without the lap time option, you limit yourself. At least this way you can have it if you want it.

Yes, you were the limiting factor in your scenario! Every on-track session may have a different goal for your reference. Qualifying, I have a target. If I see that target and I then start to hit traffic, I bring it it. If I don't see what I think will be PP, then I stay out.

In a race, it just may be to tell you that you have gotten into a rut and need to pick it up. Who knows, but letting it limit you is in your head and can be overcome...but at least have it at your disposal.

Test day? Invaluable.

There are no cons to knowing your lap times unless you let them be cons.

Having everything in a center-stack is what I need. It's the easiest way to know what you need to know when you need to know it in the safest possible way IMHO.

[StephenB]

Dave, I have the go ahead to spend some money but I am open to other ideas. The gauges you mention would cost about 1/2 as much as the display plus you need to be creative mounting them. As you said mine are not in the best visible location. Any other good ideas? No one up here uses an AIM. I am going to give bill a call with race keeper as well.

Stephen

[ulfelder]

I love having my trick Dash-2 setup. Because then I can not look at the Dash-2. Which is cooler than not looking at analog gauges, and much cooler than not looking at a stock dash.

(I need a big-ass shift light shining in my face. That's about all I pay attention to beside the track ahead. I am not proud of this.)

[gran racing]

Qualifying, I have a target.

As have I in the past defined it by a number. Now I go much more by feel as in, how much better do I really think there is out there in these track conditions, on this given day? I also know this varies greatly from driver to driver, including their driving style and how they handle qualifying. I also believe too many drivers target a specific lap time, and they place self-imposed limitations. Again, not saying that's what you do.

Stephen, I don't think it's a bad investment. I just know we're fairly similar in many respects including budget. Okay, so try this. Buy the DASH2 but do NOT ruin your OEM cluster thinking that would be a great place to mount this. Who would ever do such a silly thing? Err, me! The DASH2 will hold value so worst case you sell it so your bother. I'm also not saying you won't see some benefits from it, just wondered if you'd see more in other areas.

So what you're saying Steve is you're stuck in a dash purgatory? Oh God. Sorry, couldn't resist.

[SPiFF]

I am using a DASH3 and really like it. I have oil and other vitals logged with warnings but the 3 most used features in order are:

1) shift lights
2) lap timer
3) lap counter

The Race Technology software is rather Byzantine but the logger and the DASH products are great.

[lateapex911]

Jeeez, it's invaluable, esp for a one man show.

I've had issues, and studied data, and found the problem. That weird miss? Turns out voltage was dropping in a certain place on the track, a bump in a corner. Traced it to a failing master switch.
Watchingthe oil pressure traces, fuel pressure traces, etc can be very revealing.
For tuning the OX reading is really helpful as well.
AIM plugs it's CAN system into many ECUs, so there's a ton of data logging capability there too.
I program the shift lights to be green only after the engine is in the power band. Then the yellow and red are the shift indicators.
I've gotten pressure sensors and monitored airbox pressures to ensure I have a good feed to the engine. (I programmed this to toggle the warning lights so I could see pressure changes in real time. Does following a car change airbox pressures? Easy to see...)
Cheap air temp sensors are good for monitoring underhood temps...
It logs EGTs as well, so I an track which rotor is doing what.

And on and on...

Then there's the lap timing stuff. LOL

[titanium]

Andy,
Will any of the cars you have at Sebring next week be equipped with dash2 or 3 system?
I would like to stop by and take a look at it.

[924Guy]

I've been running a DL1 with Dash3 in my DSR - only dash that'll fit in the tiny little cockpit without serious work.

Only problem is that I can't see anything other than lights in the car; the open-cockpit pretty much kills the legibility of the dash at high speed - and anything other than a cooldown lap is high-speed in that beasty. I suspect I'd be much better off with that dash in a closed-cockpit car, without the glare issue. Configurable dash displays are nice, though.

Purportedly the Dash4 is more legible, but still giving some up in visibility in relation to other cars, it seems.

I do find, in the ITB car, that knowing my lap times is very important. I'm too busy in the DSR trying to hang on and not kill myself to worry about lap times till I get out.

For me, the big draws of the DL1 (as compared to others, such as the AIM MyChron3 I have in the ITB car) are the analogs and data analysis capabilities. Twice the analogs of the AIM (8 vs 4), plus GPS and full accelerometer package (need to get this updated to 6g capability), and more complex data analysis options. I aim to add suspension position analysis to the car this year, along with more warning lights.

I'll end up using the dash for little more than a shift light while in the car, at least till I can get more comfortable in the car and have more time to look at the dash. But it's still a very useful piece, and I still have yet to tap into the ECU...

[Andy Bettencourt]

Andy,
Will any of the cars you have at Sebring next week be equipped with dash2 or 3 system?
I would like to stop by and take a look at it.

They all will...all integrated to the Video system as well.

[StephenB]

Does anyone have any advice or thoughts on one of these:

Motec ADL2-
Pro-Logging
8 Mb Logging
30 In/Outputs

[Andy Bettencourt]

Does anyone have any advice or thoughts on one of these:

Motec ADL2-
Pro-Logging
8 Mb Logging
30 In/Outputs

Don't do it. Is it a good system, yes. Do yourself a favor, get the RT stuff. Most everyone in NE has them and you will be able to do some actual comparisons and get that much more out of your investment.

[StephenB]

ya I don't know much about this stuff at all to be honest... But I badly want to learn as I KNOW it will make me much better! I saw this bad boy above used for about 3K and wasn't sure if it actually tapped into the car to allow you to do dyno tuning like with a regular Motec. (I think this normally runs for double that) If so it seems like a good deal if the dyno guy down the street understands it.

Stephen